Broche Banter #3 -- Roni
Today on Broche Banter, we have Roni — a pharmacist in her 30s who came back to ballet after quitting at the age of 13.
We talk about the mental mountain climbing that happens in class, community, and the perfect fouetté.
Enjoy!
What prompted you to rediscover ballet as an adult?
Julie (studio owner): So you danced as a kid and then came back to ballet. What prompted that move back to ballet?
Roni: I think back and try to remember and I have no idea!
J: That's how I am too, I have no idea.
R: It just happened one day and my entire life I’ve not had a hobby that really stuck and dancing was something that my parents made me do. I didn't see a path to pointe when I was in eighth grade so with not having urgency as a 13 year old, I quit instead. It's funny, because when I was dancing as a kid, I would do a lot of pirouettes in the kitchen, and then as of last January I found myself doing pirouettes in the kitchen again and then did about an hour’s worth of internet research and found Broche. I almost didn’t make the preview lesson. I remember buying my ballet shoes so that I would have to go.
J: It’s really scary coming to the preview lessons. I’ve learned to account for that emotional response that people have because it’s so intense! You walk into the studio and there’s this giant full-length mirror in front of you and you don’t know what is happening!
Why did you stick with ballet as an adult?
J: You don’t know why you started this whole thing, but why did this hobby stick? What is so special - or tortuous - about this that makes you come back every day?
R: It’s the only thing that can quiet my mind. In the past I’ve had a lot personal and work stuff on mind and it really is an escape. I’ve tried yoga, mindfulness, I’ve tried a bunch of other stuff and the only thing that clears everything out is ballet and it’s probably because there’s so much to be thinking about.
J: You run now. Does that give you the same feeling or is running not quite the same?
R: Not even close. It’s awful. I hate running every minute that I’m doing it. For the most part, in ballet time flies. It’s the best kind of feeling of losing track of time. I feel more motivated to do things and it plays into my life so well. A lot of the time I go to evening ballet, so I don’t get a lot done but on the weekend with early classes, if I don't get up and go to ballet then I won’t do anything. It’ll be 4 o'clock before i get around to dressing.
J: Right, it encourages those healthy habits.
R: It’s really nice to have something that enjoyable and that impactful underpinning my week, or my whole life at this point.
How much do you dance per week?
J: How much do you dance a week [before the pandemic]?
R: When I had my crazy schedule, I would probably take ten or twelve classes a week, if I stacked them appropriately. Once I had a normal schedule, I was still getting one in every week night except Wednesdays, with pointe as well on two of those nights, and then the weekends I would do 3 on Saturday and then 3 on Sunday.
J: There was also rehearsal surrounding the Saturday and Sunday classes as well. So you would have Saturday class all day with me and then go to rehearsal, and then on Sunday you would go to rehearsal and then have class with me for the rest of the day.
R: Yes, that happened.
J: That’s hardcore! That’s a lot of escaping.
R: The best part about ballet is that it’s a mountain to climb. It’s something to get better at forever. I’m never going to be a prima-- cool. Even as I age, there will be new challenges to be doing things well in ballet, but I don’t think there will ever be a point where I can’t keep learning or keep improving in ballet so I think that’s driving for me. I don’t go to escape every hour that I’m there (maybe a little bit), but I genuinely appreciate the art form now and I want to do it better. I’m not sure why, I just do. It’s lovely to be able to step back and see the progress.
J: I think ballet is kind of a trap. None of us know why we’re stuck in this trap, but yet we cannot stop.
R: Exactly! The most frustrating thing: You can’t get out of it.
J: No, you can’t get out of it nor can you perfect it so you’re just stuck in this thing that you happen to love and be obsessed with, but you can never leave and be done with.
R: It’s like Atlas with rock. The rock comes down and your hill gets bigger and more complicated. But it’s prettier.
J: Right. The heavier weight you lift, the uglier your face gets. But the better you get at ballet the prettier the whole thing is!
R: Right. That’s an overall win!
J: And yet, I feel like it has not fixed how clumsy I am in my regular life
R: No, not even a little bit.
J: Not even a little bit. I trip over the dogs constantly, I trip over my feet, trip going down stairs, I drop things. The coordination has not improved if it’s not choreographed.
R: Definitely. It takes a lot of iteration before I can actually get it correct.
J: That’s right. The walking part of life is too sporadic and not choreographed so it’s not always successful even though we’re graceful in the studio.
R: Eh, working on it but if there was a choreographed dance where I had to hold my keys for the whole dance, I would not do well at that dance because I’d drop my keys.
J: Or if you had to remember what pocket you put the keys in by the end of the dance.
R: Oh yeah, if I don’t put the keys on the key rack, it’s going to be 20 minutes before I find the keys. If I put my keys down and I don’t remember, then I’ll clumsily hit them and they’ll go under the fridge or something. That means I’d better stay home that day.
J: Dancer problems, you know? People come into the studio wanting to be more graceful. And yes, it will happen, however, let me tell you that some things will not change!
What is your biggest challenge?
J: What is your biggest challenge that you’re working on overcoming?
R: Most of my challenges are mental surrounding frustration and not being able to get it perfect. I struggled with that a lot early on to the point that I would get so frustrated that it wouldn't be fun. Considering that I started utilizing this as a tool in my regular life, it was counterproductive for it to be so frustrating and not helpful in that way. It comes back periodically and you have to calm your mind and just work towards the idea that it doesn’t have to be perfect, but you just have to do it. Sometimes, you’re going to have a bunch of crap weeks, but you have to convince yourself that you learn even while you’re having imperfect form. You can learn from the crap too, and build on it. It’s frustrating and hard and not fun to do. It definitely detracts from the pleasurable aspect of going to ballet every day, but once you push through that, it gets easier the next time. Remind yourself that, “I couldn’t do that before but now I got better” and “look how much farther I am now.” I’m not doing perfectly still, but I’m doing better than I was before and now I have a new challenge. The frustration can really get to you. I’m going through that right now, especially being at home [because of the pandemic]. I don’t have the right floor, the right set-up, I don’t have the direct interaction with you guys that I’m used to. But I’m really trying to sit with the idea that it’s still worth it, and that I can learn from just showing up and knowing it’s worth it.
Why did you stick with ballet?
J: That’s very intense. It can be super frustrating. Why did you initially not stop?
R: I don’t know, because I should have. There’s a lot of hobbies I’ve picked up and put down.
J: Right, and many do. Many stop at that first point when they’re like, “I can’t get a glissade, or a pirouette” or whatever, there’s an incredible, incredible urge to stop. As dancers, as teachers, as studios, how do you overcome that?
R: Man, I’m trying to put myself back there in it. It might have been the people.
J: Yeah, the support and the expectation that you will get it and that we know you can get it.
R: Yeah, my first classes were with Jess. It very quickly became a support system that I didn’t have as I struggled through some stuff in my personal life, and I think having that connection plus being with those people is so enjoyable. The class was challenging but it wasn’t too hard. Very quickly, Jess, you, and everyone else helped me figure out my learning style and I was able to catch onto things easier because I think if you’re frustrated and overwhelmed, it’s easy to be done. But there’s always something that someone is doing well, and if you can pinpoint that and then extrapolate on that, I think that’s where Jess had a lot of early success in teaching me and maybe that’s what helped get me over that initial bump so that I could keep going.
J: Yeah, and it’s a really hard hump to get over. It’s very intense and it really brings up all of your insecurities in your own life. These thoughts all become super intense. People say it’s just ballet, but it’s not. It’s like your whole life comes back at you when you can’t get the glissade figured out. It’s like your whole life wrapped up in one thing that you can’t figure out and so it’s no wonder it’s hard to get through that.
R: You’re exactly right. I had a lot of that and in the other parts of my life at the same time. So, maybe as tough as it is, it was the one thing I had control over. I can’t do the glissade as well as someone else, but I can practice it and improve on it. As frustrating as it is, and as much of a microcosm that it is, it’s something you have control over and improve on, whereas other things may be out of control. So I think it helped me by grounding me, I guess.
J: It’s one of those things where you feel like you can’t do something in your whole life, and you see this one tiny thing that you did and you’re like “oh! I did that. Let me see if I can do this!” and this one tiny thing can overturn that negative self talk that just says you can’t do anything but you can say that there’s proof you did that one tiny thing, so you can do anything.
R: Right, and if you can do that one little thing, what else can you do? You keep bringing those along and get enough of those, your entire perspective can change on dancing, the world, your job, personal relationships and be very powerful.
J: It’s much more than dance. It really is. It’s building confidence in so much more than just the ballet steps. When you think about the future of your life with dance, do you have some immediate goals that you’re hoping for?
R: So… Somewhat jokingly, my goal coming back to ballet was to be en pointe. I checked that off. I’m never going to dance Swan Lake or whatever, so it’s never going to be 36 fouettes en pointe--
J: Never say never. And you only have to do 32, so not even that bad!
R: Well, I clearly need to up my bar, because I’ve been saying to everybody who will listen to me that I want to do exactly one fouette en pointe, on camera, and then I’m out. The end. I’m going out on top.
J: Retiring on top. We’ll hang your leotard in the studio and it’s over. We’ll embroider your name on the back.
R: Exactly. So that’s my long-term goal. Honestly, I’m hoping to get there before it’s not feasible for me to do fouette turns en pointe anymore. But more immediately, my goal is to start to look like it’s effortless because the effort shows a lot right now because it’s really hard! In the last showcase when I watched my performance back, it didn’t look the way I wanted it to. So I want to focus more on the port de bras and upper body things to make it look nicer for the showcase that we will have in the future. I have a pointe piece with two partners and it’s supposed to be flowy. I don’t think I was at a place before where I could settle to concentrate on port de bras because I was so concerned with getting the feet and turnout right, but I think I’m finally at a place where I can think about the softer skill of the port de bras and it’s not easy.
J: It’s in fact perhaps just as hard, if not harder than the legs. It’s not as physically demanding, because it doesn't require as big of muscles to hold as big of weight, but mentally it requires so much focus. What is that left arm even doing? It’s always just dangling out there.
R: All of the concentration is a lot. There’s only so much you can hold in your mind, so that’s a lot of where the frustration comes from right now, but I’m working on it and dealing with it until it becomes a solid piece and then work from there.
J: Then, when you get your one fouette, you have to make it look easy and then you can drop the jersey. You have to put those two goals together.
R: I do believe I said perfectly?
J: Okay, but I didn’t hear effortlessly so I’m going to put that in there.
R: Okay, either way, there’s room for interpretation. I’m never going to do it perfectly so I guess I’ll be working on both until I’m dead.
J: Right. What I always say to new dancers is you’re going to get a double before you get a perfect single. So, you’re going to get 32 fouettes before you get a perfect single!
R: Good, something to look forward to.
J: Just throwing that out there as an option.
R: Yeah, it’ll happen.
What advice do you have for your past self?
J: If you had advice for past Roni, what would tell her before coming back to ballet when she wasn’t sure if she was going to do it?
R: It’s worth it. I wish I could talk to me years ago. It sounds really weird and mushy, but it has been life-altering in a very positive manner. It’s just worth it and the benefits that come with it-- they don’t stop. They haven’t stopped thus far.
J: And it’s worth it.
R: Mhm.
J: Awesome. Well thanks Roni, it’s been so fun to chat with you. Your ballet journey has been so fun to watch from my perspective as well. You just work super hard and like you said you always show up even if it was a terrible day, even if life sucks, even if you’re not feeling it, even if you need 8 applesauces you just always show up no matter what’s happening in your life and you know, many of us make excuses for why we can’t come but you always show up no matter what’s going on so I think that’s huge deal and it has certainly contributed to your success thus far and your quick progress through things. It’s been super fun and rewarding to watch you through this whole thing.
R: Thank you. Thank you for creating the space to do all of this. I mean, it really is very different to have access to this [kind of training] at this level and have it be so community driven. You guys are my community now and it’s so much more than just dancing. So thank you for creating this community and letting me be a part of it.
J: It’s awesome. It’s really nothing I imagined it being. In the beginning, it was just dance and then it was like, oh no this is much bigger. This is cool. It’s really grown bigger than I thought it would, which is awesome.
R: It’s amazing, and I’m so glad that you were able to modify it for different situations because I think that there is a definite desire and need amongst the community to continue to stay connected, because once we found Broche, we didn’t want to give it up.
J: And this is how we don’t lose our minds, and in a time when you would lose your mind otherwise, it’s very difficult to then be detached from your community and your escape. I mean it’s not the same mental escape online, but if you’re close then you can get in there a little bit.
R: And such great practice to show up!
J: Right. Just be there. Just get through plies and then you’ll be fine.
