Broche Banter #9 -- Kaitlynne
Today on the show we have Kaitlynne, a 27-year-old who works in construction/mining software and started ballet about 4 years ago.
On this episode, we talk about performing, developing confidence in the studio, and the mental clarity that comes with ballet class.
Enjoy!
Julie: So, today I’m with the wonderful, fabulous Kaitlynne. So Kaitlynne, how long have you been in Denver with us at the studio now? Has it been a year yet?
Kaitlynne: It should be a year in May, so we’re coming right up along there!
J: Yeah, because May is already happening.
K: Yeah, somehow!
J: Wow! And you are dressed amazingly at the moment, for anyone who is listening only on audio or reading it. You’re wearing a full leotard, skirt, shrug, I’m pretty sure there’s even pointe shoes under the table right now.
K: Yep, that’s me!
J: You have some amazing outfits. You have a skirt with pearls sewn on it? Tell me about some of your favorites.
K: Yeah. So I’ve always wanted to wear leotards and skirts and so there are a lot of dancers who started wearing leotards and skirts when they were younger, but that wasn’t me so I’m not worn out of them by any means. I have a ton of skirts, a ton of leotards, and probably one of my favorite ones is one that my friend made me back in Indiana. It’s white and gold and sparkly and it has pearls on it. It’s definitely one of my favorites. And then of course, you know I love my practice tutu as well.
J: Obviously, as one does.
Tell me about your start with ballet
J: How long has it been since you started doing ballet? Has it been a couple of years by now?
K: Yeah, so I started ballet actively when I was 23 and I’m 27 now. There was a year between 23 and 24 that I was doing it once a week and would frequently skip it and it wasn’t the best experience, I would say. It took me getting into a new studio with a new teacher to really understand ballet and start to make that progression forward.
J: What was it about the first experience that maybe didn’t help you start progressing? Was it that you weren’t ready yet or was it the environment? What was it about the beginning?
K: It wasn’t the right environment because I had never danced before and ballet is not one of those things that you easily pick up, at least not me. The first place that I went to was really more catered to the advanced beginners, and it was too intimidating for me to feel like I was really getting anything out of it. There weren’t any corrections, there weren’t any details about how to do combinations so I was really overwhelmed and just sort of stopped going.
J: Yeah, that can be a lot. Did you dress to the nines from the very first day or did it take you a while to warm up to it?
K: That’s a really interesting question, but I did do the nines. That was my way of motivating myself. I always wanted to do ballet, but I was really scared. So I bought myself my first leotard, my first skirt, my tights, my first pair of Bloch leather shoes. I’ve always been leotards and skirts and tights.
J: Me too! I started my first class with a leotard and tights, although I didn’t know about skirts yet. I went in a leotard and tights even, not even the skirt. That’s a bold move for young [Julie]. Who does that?
K: That’s great!
J: So you started in an environment that wasn’t as great, you took a year to kind of get your feet wet and spend some time being overwhelmed. Did you want to quit at that point entirely or did you always know that you wanted to keep going and just had to find a better environment? What was that journey like for you between 23 and 24?
K: Without getting too into the weeds with it, I started in Denver but then we moved to Indiana for a Master’s Program, so I didn’t have anything else to do so I just decided to try ballet again. But by the time I had left Colorado, I was done and I didn’t want to do it anymore. I thought maybe that ballet wasn’t for me. I thought, “maybe I’m just meant to watch it. Maybe it’s just something that I see in videos,” and it took incredible boredom out of Indiana for me to get into that next ballet studio, and that changed my life forever. Nicole Beland, if you’re out there listening somewhere, I appreciate you. Thank you.
J: That’s awesome, boredom. Literally there was nothing else to do except dance.
K: Yeah, exactly. It started with one class, and then two, and then three, and then you. And now -- well it was all the time before this little “Stay at Home” situation.
Talk to me about your goals
J: So do you have goals other than just wanting to do ballet for the love of doing ballet? Have you started to develop micro-goals within that bigger goal of being able to dance? What is your thought on goals?
K: Yeah, and we’ve talked about this but my list just keeps getting longer and longer. I cross things out and I add things, but probably one of the biggest things for me is that now I understand what the steps are, I understand the movement, and in general I can understand what the combinations are, but the technique is not as strong as I want it to be. So a lot of it comes from turnout and core is a huge thing, I think that’s a lot of people’s thing, so strengthening and I guess endurance is really hard too. So I do have even more micro-goals than that; I’d like to get my extension higher, I’d like to get my center splits, you know there’s a million other things. But overall, I would say strength is key if you want to do any of those things.
J: That’s very true. I think that’s a very good perspective to have is that you want all of these things, but they come from strength. I think that’s hard for beginners to come to where when you’re first starting to dance, say four or five years ago, that’s hard to know that that’s what you want. You want your legs up super high but you don’t know how you would get there, and then the deeper you get into it, you’re like, “oh, it’s technique. It’s all of the fundamentals and that’s how I get there.”
K: Yeah, just take classes from you and then we know. We know what we should be doing to get the muscles to do what we want them to do.
J: Right, all in the details.
What keeps you coming back?
J: What other aspects about ballet keep you coming back? It’s hard, it’s frustrating, it can sometimes be hard to find the motivation, what keeps you doing it?
K: It is really, really hard. There’s no getting around that, but the sense of accomplishment that I feel after class can’t be replaced. Every single time I have class, I’m so happy that I went and afterwards I am so fulfilled. The physical part of it is actually just a side effect. The real reason that I keep coming back is because it keeps me mentally together. It gives me confidence, it makes me feel like I’m accomplishing something, and I think that everyone should at least try some form of dance for this type of benefit, for sure.
J: The mental aspect is huge. We’ve talked about this in class before about the peacefulness of the mind and getting the mind to take it down a notch at the end of a long day. I think that’s a big aspect as well.
K: Well you can’t think about anything other than ballet at ballet. Anything that was maybe bothering you that day is just -- a switch is flipped and you’re in ballet mode. It’s great.
J: It’s like meditation.
K: There are times when I’ll come into class and I’ll hear other dancers say, “I need this today,” and that’s incredible.
J: It’s as effective as a glass of wine, if not more.
K: Oh yeah!
J: And it’s better for you!
What is your biggest challenge with ballet?
J: What do you find is your biggest challenge with ballet? Whether it’s physical, mental, or anything, what do you find to be most challenging for you right now?
K: Especially right now, the most challenging thing is meeting myself with kindness. When I’m having a really great week or month or couple of months, and I’m on it and I’m seeing improvement, that’s the easy part. The hard part is when you have to take a few days off because this isn’t our profession. We’re doing this in the midst of our other lives as well, and taking a week off or even six weeks or however long is really hard and you feel a huge sense of regression, and just trying to understand and remember that that’s not really why I’m here. That’s not why I’m doing ballet. I would say the hardest thing is being able to meet myself with kindness when I’m regressing or when things aren’t improving the way they should be or even when I just don’t feel up to going to class, just remembering that that’s okay. I’m going to be okay and I can still dance.
J: The word “should” is quite dangerous too. If things aren’t improving how they “should” be improving. That’s always a tough word when you put that on yourself and you’re thinking, “why am I not better yet? I’ve been doing this for x number of years, why can’t I do this yet?” That’s a really slippery slope to go down and really makes it even more difficult to be kind to yourself when you have that mental talk, and when that little voice tells you those things.
K: It’s hard, and I know a lot of dancers feel that way. We support one another, but for some reason it’s hard for us to support ourselves in that same way.
J: That’s a great point, right. If someone in class falls out of a pirouette, you say, “great job! You did great, can you see all of these good things?” and then you fall out of a pirouette and you think, “this was a disaster! This was the worst thing ever!”
K: Yeah, exactly.
J: I don’t know why that is, that little voice in our head is just not as kind as our external voice.
K: Absolutely.
J: I think that’s something that afflicts many dancers, especially in ballet. We’re all about achieving a specific standard. We’re all trying to get a very specific goal in mind so being kind to yourself along the way is not exactly an easy task especially given who ballet tends to attract. It tends to attract people who are of that perfectionist nature and want things to be really well done and really perfect, but obviously that’s not a human trait; perfection.
K: Exactly. My boyfriend is always telling me that I’m addicted to ballet and that it’s either all or nothing, and I think people who dance ballet understand why that’s the case, but it really kind of is that way.
J: That’s an interesting point that you bring up about it being all or nothing. I think when I was first starting ballet, I did experience that where I would go through phases when I would go every single day multiple times a day, and then I would go through phases where I didn’t go at all for six to eight weeks. I think now later in my life that a sustainable pace is better than going hardcore unsustainably for so long and then needing to take a breather from it, taking a ballet bender and then needing to take time off. Whereas if I can just figure out how to do it 2-3 times a week sustainably, that that was a better approach. Have you found a similar thing or do you like the bulk part and then taking a break?
K: I guess it ebbs and flows. It really is different person to person, so if there are some people out there who can do it once a week, that’s awesome. If you can do it any amount of time in your life and you enjoy it, it’s worth doing it. I will say though that when you start to get into pointe shoes, strengthening, and then when you obsess over Instagram, it can take over your life really quickly. There’s a balance and I’m still trying to find it. I think like you mentioned, there’s a beginning phase and there’s a bunch of phases in the middle of it and I’m still in that I’ll do it all the time and then I’ll have to take time off. I hope to find a balance some time soon, but that takes time.
J: Well, balance is by nature not very easy to sustain because it’s always trying to fall off of that equilibrium, as we know from ballet class.
What does accomplishment feel like for you?
J: So when you’re dancing and you feel like you’ve achieved a goal, what does that feel like for you? What does actually achieving something feel like or mean to you?
K: Man, that is a great question. It’s a feeling of elation almost and it sticks with me for a while. It sticks with me throughout that whole night and maybe even through to the next class until maybe I make a mistake and then it puts me back in reality, I suppose. But there is nothing like landing a double pirouette when you haven’t landed one in three years. There’s nothing like being able to balance in arabesque for the first time when you’ve been trying and trying and trying and then get that first arabesque and you feel like you can fly and stay there forever. I mean, I really romanticize it but it’s like nothing else. You really have to experience it.
J: You do. I always say that ballet is the last bit of magic that adults still have.
K: I believe that.
J: In a magic show, you know there’s something behind it. But when you get a balance or a pirouette, you feel it. You get chills in your body and you feel it. You can feel that intensity.
K: Absolutely. It’s incredible.
Let’s talk about your Pas de Deux for our last recital!
J: Speaking of incredible things, in our last show you performed a partnering piece, and you got to perform with a partner en pointe. Tell me about that whole experience. What was it like to learn about partnering, what was it like to do that on pointe shoes, partnering with Joel, what was that experience like for you?
K: I would like to start by saying that Joel was incredible and that the whole point of a pas de deux apparently is to showcase the ballerina, but the men do so much. They do an incredible amount of work. I had no idea how hard partnering would be. It wasn’t just the partnering itself but it was the stamina to rely on one another because I have to be holding my entire body essentially in a flexed position when he’s doing holds for him to be able to actually hold me. So there’s a whole different set of muscles, a whole different set of challenges that I could not have anticipated. I had no idea how hard partnering was, but I have a huge respect for anyone who even attempts it.
J: It’s very intense. I remember the first time I took a partnering class and it was even the beginning partnering class where you’re just standing and they’re moving you around, and I think my abs were sore for three days after that. It was incredible how much you have to be like a board.
K: Exactly. Cristina had me doing planks and side planks every day just to strengthen for one specific lift and so I think that there’s a huge amount of things outside of actually partnering that is really important too, so anyone who wants to try it, I do recommend but you’ll have your work cut out for you, for sure.
J: Totally. What was that like when you actually did the performance? Did it feel different when you were actually performing the partnering? Because obviously you both have your own set of nerves that you then have to line up together while you’re performing. Did that kind of change the game a little bit on show day?
K: Oh yeah. Both of our hands were sweating, we were both shaking a little bit, but it’s so weird because rehearsals feel very long. Every time you have to do it again, it feels very long. And then when you get on stage, it feels like a blink of an eye and before you know it, it’s over. I wasn’t expecting that and your body does just kind of take over a little bit. Nerves still get the better of you and mistakes still happen, but I don’t feel like I was even thinking during those performances.
J: It’s almost like the pirouette panic where your eyes just sort of go blank and you lose yourself in the moment.
K: Exactly.
J: Fingers crossed that your technique just carries you through whatever it is.
K: Oh yeah, and half the time it does and then the other half, the audience still doesn’t know, so it’s not a big deal.
Let’s get into pointework
J: I know you love pointework, I think every single pointe class we have, you’re there for it. Even if you don’t have your technique class, it’s your favorite thing.
K: Oh yeah.
J: Have you been en pointe now for a year? Over a year, a little over a year because you’ve been with us for almost a year.
K: I don’t feel like I was actually en pointe until I moved back here, so maybe just under a year when I really feel like I was into it.
J: Tell me about pointework. It’s a different journey for every adult. Everyone goes through the process of getting their pointe shoes, their first class, the whole process. Did you love it from the beginning? Were you thinking, “oh my God, what is this?” How did that go once you finally got your first pair of shoes?
K: I was longing for the day of pointe shoes, so when I finally got them I was so excited. And then the first class we had, my feet must have been completely numb, I was pretty sure my toes were going to fall off, it was so hard and so initially painful. Now that I’m almost a year in, I find that even when I feel pain in pointe shoes, that it’s really not pain. I feel like everything else counteracts any pain that I would feel. You know me, I absolutely love pointework and I take technique in hopes to improve my pointework. That’s the whole goal for me.
J: It is sort of an end game in and of itself. It is something you want to work towards and always keep getting better at and obviously every technical challenge we have on flat is x100 en pointe.
K: Oh yeah, but I love it. I kind of felt this way with high heels I guess, but it’s that same feeling of when you get an arabesque for the first time as when you’re able to stand en pointe and feel beautiful and graceful and elegant. It’s not something that I can really describe.
J: It’s very fun. I think the pain, as you said, changes over time. It hurts your first time and then the pain comes to feel like pointe. You just know what that pain feels like. It’s the same thing as working out stretching or anything like that where you know what that pain feels like. That pain means you’re doing pointework and you’re in pointe class and you associate it with those positive feelings and so it kind of becomes an acquired taste in that way.
K: That’s an important distinction, absolutely.
J: It still hurts!
K: Right, don’t want to mislead anyone here.
J: Right. It still is sort of unpleasant but you get used to it in that regard.
What advice do you have for people wanting to start out?
J: Do you have any last things that you want to say or advice that you might give to anyone who is in a similar boat who always wanted to do ballet but is too scared to give it a try or anyone who is maybe on their journey and feels a little stuck?
K: Absolutely. For those of you who have always wanted to try ballet, or really want to try anything, absolutely do it. It doesn’t matter how old you are, it doesn’t matter what your body type is, none of it matters. If you want to try ballet, go for it. Just try it. If you feel really confident that you love ballet but that you didn’t have a good experience, try it again! If I hadn’t tried it again, I wouldn’t have found one of my biggest passions of all time. For anyone feeling stuck out there, that’s very normal. We all go through periods of feeling completely stuck, or like I mentioned that you’re regressing or going backwards somehow, but you’re not. Every moment that you take a ballet class or that you’re thinking about ballet or doing any of those things is a success, so keep on it! The more adult ballet dancers, the better. I love it so much.
J: Yes. I agree with you on all of it. It’s so fun and it’s so rewarding when you finally can achieve these goals and push past the setbacks.
K: I promise it will be worth it. Promise.
J: Promise!
K: Maybe I shouldn’t get quite that bold, but.
J: I think anytime you work at something and you achieve it, it gives you loads of confidence.
