Broche Banter #38 -- Kara | Is it too late to learn something new?
Today on the show, I chat with Kara, a Celtic singer, and musician who also shares her love of traditional Celtic arts with her many adult students. She also started ballet a few years ago and is about to get en pointe for the first time.
We connect on so many levels as teachers of adult students about the notion of it being “too late” or of a person being “too old” and about expressing ourselves in the arts at any age.
It’s really a touching conversation and Kara’s kind and passionate soul will absolutely encourage you to chase your dreams, whatever they may be.
Enjoy!
Photo Credit on Thumbnail Photo: James Sterling Photography
Kara’s Intro and Important Statement on “Being Too Old”
As a teacher, myself for music lessons, I think it's so important to remind adults, that you're never too old to start something. You're never too old to continue something, you're never too old to start as a complete beginner.
I love teaching adult students. The first question I feel like I always get is, is it too late for me to start the time and time again. So society is putting this idea into people's heads over and over again. And I think that it's not just from a point of view of even starting something new, but just even the idea that you're always too old, you're getting older, you're getting too old, you're going to be old, is just this constant thing we hear in society. And I think it's really sad because my adult students are tremendous. They're amazing. Every lesson, they come in 150% focused because they're making the time for this in their busy schedules, they're paying for it, they are deciding that this is what they want to do. And I'm not saying that children can't be super driven and focused because of course they can be. But there's a big difference between your parents telling you, you're going to go to your lesson now. And you being an adult person with a job, and hobbies and maybe a family or whatever, being busy, and deciding I'm going to make time for this.
Julie: Welcome to the show. Kara. I'm so excited to have a chance to chat with you today. What fun to be able to sit down together.
Kara: Oh, yeah, I've so been looking forward to this. It's gonna be so much fun.
Kara: So I am a vocalist and I also play the fiddle, which is just a violin I get asked that a lot. So I feel like it's always worth mentioning fiddle and violin are the same instrument. You will typically hear people in folk music, any kind of folk music, call it a fiddle, whereas violin is typically more going to be assumed that it's a classical or an orchestra type of musician, maybe jazz, you know, not always everyone's different. But definitely in the Celtic world, you play fiddle. You’d very rarely hear someone say “Oh, I play Irish violin.” No, you you play fiddle. I play also a little bit of tin whistle. And I'm learning to play a very, very unusual medieval instrument called the hurdy gurdy, which is a crazy thing to obtain basically, you can't get them ready-made. Someone has to build them for you. There are only like a couple people in the world who make them. So it's very interesting.
Julie: So you mentioned you've been performing since you were a kid. Did you start all of these things when you were a kid? I know you started the What was it called again? The medieval instrument. You started that now?
Kara: Yeah, I started that just recently the hurdy gurdy. So, I guess the backstory that probably brings it all together is that my father is a professional musician, and has been since he was a teenager. So I grew up basically, he has a recording studio as well. So I grew up being in the recording studio with my dad. From the actual time I was a baby because there are home videos to prove this. Home videos of tiny Kara, like playing on the keyboard with my dad, and my mom in the background being like, let the baby sleep. So my father's background is actually more in like 60s and 70s alternative rock. He played a lot of like King Crimson, Purple Harem, a lot of like British bands, kind of like almost psychedelic like alternative rock, he was a Hammond B3 player. Which is awesome, because I do actually we were talking the other day about pop music and me saying I don't listen to it at all.
Probably like the most modern music that I listen to on a regular basis that is not Celtic or World is like a lot of still the 60s 70s stuff that I grew up listening to my dad play. But yeah, my dad switched over to start playing Celtic music in a Celtic band when I was probably maybe around six or seven years old. So I grew up from that age with pretty much purely Celtic music. And that was the age that I started playing the violin, I had a couple of years of classical training and then switched over to traditional Irish fiddle for the rest of my life. And as far as singing, just for as long as I can remember, I would sit at the piano with my dad and, and sing and never took formal lessons as a vocalist. Because it's not always the sound that you want, as a traditional Celtic vocalist, I guess. Lessons improve everything for everyone, and I've learned and grown a lot over the years, but a lot of vocal lessons are taught kind of as more of a classical or opera style of voice and that's really different sound than you want as a traditional Celtic folk vocalist anyway. Yes, since I was a little kid basically, with those things. And then you know, over the years, pick up some other things as I've gone.
Julie: And you did Irish dancing at some point in all of this. Is that true?
Kara: Yeah. So growing up with river dance being a huge part of my childhood that was kind of like the famous show for anybody in traditional music. Well, for a lot of the world that was their first taste of any kind of Irish dance or music culture. I was absolutely obsessed with river dance and with Irish step dancing from a young age, but pursuing the musical faction of it so much, I only really had little bits of lessons here and there. Sometimes we play a lot of Irish festivals and things like that, sometimes there I'd get little bits of lessons or workshops. But I started actual formal dance lessons in my mid-20s. So you know, very much an adult, very much an adult for that.
Julie: So you are a musician. This has been quite the year for musicians. Last week, we had another musician on the show as well. What a year for musicians. Are you still teaching at this point? Are you still performing? What is your musician life look like in this world?
Kara: Yeah, it's crazy. It has been really a tremendous year, I think not just for musicians, but any kind of performers, anyone in performing arts and entertainment, I am very, very grateful that I am still able to teach and have been teaching since the pandemic started. just completely online. So I have hardly any people, if any, given how things look in the area at the time coming to meet in person.
Now, I do have the benefit that I teach out of my home. So I'm not in a public space, so if I do have one person who feels comfortable coming from time to time, and we both feel that that's safe to do, we wear masks, you know, we sit apart and it's not like I have a waiting room or that I have a bunch of people coming in and out. But for the most part, all of my students are Skype and Zoom. Now thankfully, I've always had Skype and zoom students because I have a couple of students who are out of state.
So for me, it wasn't a tremendously difficult crossover to make, since I had already been doing it to some degree. But there's a huge difference, of course, between all of your students being online, as you very well know, I don't have to tell you, and you know, having just a few from time to time.
As far as performing, no, the last gig that I had with my full four-piece band was in March of last year, March of 2020. We shut down here right before St. Patrick's Day, which is, being a Celtic band, one of our busiest times of the year, followed by summer for summer festivals and concerts. So we had been fortunate to get in a large concert right before shut down because a lot around here anyway, I don't know what what it's like in other places, but a lot of places try to stagger their St. Patrick's Day concerts because there's a lot of competition.
So we were able to get that in right before the call came that it had become a pandemic and that stay-at-home orders were starting to be put in place. So other than just a few live stream types of things here and there infrequently. No, I haven't played a normal show since March. And that is bizarre. I probably have not been able to say that since I was a little kid, a little girl at that. It's been this long since I played a normal show.
Julie: So you have an interesting mix of starting dance and music as a child and as an adult, and some self-taught and some trained. And now you teach as well, tell me about the kinds of people you teach. What where are they on this spectrum? What do you what kind of people do you enjoy teaching the most? Let's talk about the adult learning process a little bit.
Kara: Yeah, so I would say so I've been teaching since I was 16. Which was, that was interesting. My dad actually signed me up to teach lessons when I was 16 at our local cultural arts center. And I remember thinking to myself, I don't think anyone's going to take me seriously, this 16-year-old teaching lessons, and it was such a learning process. I still remember very well, those first couple of lessons that I taught and the people that I was teaching lessons to even at 16 we're still mostly adults, because I think given that I'm teaching Celtic fiddle, I'm not maybe getting the same kind of person who would be going to a music studio to just get their child started in violin lessons.
So I was getting people who were coming in, for example, when when I was 16, or 17, had a man who was in his 80s came in, and he said, “I know I don't have a lot of time left, I just want to learn to play a song on my porch, I just want to be able to pull the fiddle out, and sit on my porch and play a song.” And as this young person, this teenager, I had to think to myself, what is the best way to teach this person to achieve their goals? But you know, to not sacrifice too much quality along the way.
I really had to kind of reckon with myself in what I felt was okay to omit, I guess. Where can you kind of skim corners and still give someone a good and authentic education, knowing that they don't want to study this for 10 years before they can play something? Not that you have to, but this person wants to learn to the best of their ability and the time that they have left to really enjoy every step of the process.
And even though it was a long time ago, I've never forgotten what that felt like. And really that man, I wish I could remember his name was just, he was just a star. I mean, he was just a blessing, especially as someone who was still really young, to have a person come in and say, “This is so important to me, this is my goal. Can you help me get there?”
I felt a lot of gravity in that situation as a teacher. And I really wanted to work hard to make that happen. And he did get there by the way, he did. I don't know where he is now. But he played wonderfully, he was so driven, and just the sweetest man.
But so most of my students at this point are adults, I collect a lot of adults along the way, I do also kind of advertise myself to adults. And I just really enjoy teaching them. I also enjoy my kids too. They're phenomenal, they're super sweet. I love talking to them.
But the adults just really bring me a lot of joy, I guess, because they're so driven. They're carving this time out, they really want to do this for themselves. And a lot of my adult students will tell me that this is their time for themselves each week. And some of them this is about it, maybe it's this and an exercise class, or maybe it's this and you know, they have another hobby, but this half-hour or hour, or however long they're spending with me, is the time they've carved out for what they enjoy. And you know, not having to take care of someone else or work or clean or you know, whatever else is on their plate. And I guess I take that really seriously, I want them to have a great time. I focus very strongly on having a super relaxing atmosphere for people so that they are learning as much as they possibly can, but that they're also having fun, which is a massive part of this style of music, too. Folk music is for everyone. It's very different idea and a very different approach than most classical musicians take.
Julie: Um, gosh, I have so many questions, I don't even know where to start. First of all, I almost teared up hearing you talk about your first student. What a special gift to a better part of his life and to help him with that. It's very specia when you get people who have a really specific goal and a specific dream.
Honestly, it's an honor to be able to help them with that and they entrust you with these last few years of their life. And they say I think you can help me with this in these few years. I don't have that many years, I only have a few and you are the one to help me with it. That's kind of intense for a 16-year-old to handle. Even for you know 30-year-old to handle that kind of intense. But a very touching story.
It's so true. The points you bring up about the goals of an adult learner and the goals of an adult learner in the ballet context are probably similar comparatively to his goals where they want to feel pretty, they want to feel graceful, they want to feel free, they want to express themselves. They want to know the basics of the classical technique and how to do it well. They don't want to go make a fool of themselves but then again, they're not looking to spend 8 hours a day learning this and they want to still achieve some of those goals.
So how do you structure a program that gives them what they need technically, helps them feel the actual experience of it, but more quickly gets them to those expressive goals? Whereas kids, they don't really allow you to have those expressive goals until several years into your training. But as an adult, we really want to express ourselves from day one, that's why we're here. It's an outlet, it's very different than the process of making a kid sit there and do the same thing over and over again for five years before they can play.
Kara: Yeah, absolutely. And I think something that you just touched on, is incredibly important, and really crosses over for both worlds. And that was that both ballet and music and, and, of course, I'm biased, but I especially feel this way about Celtic music. A lot of times people getting into it, they want the whole package. And what they want is for that art form, to transport them to something else.
A lot of the people who are coming to me wanting to play Irish or Scottish music, have that ancestry in their background, and they want to connect to it. And of course, it's a beautiful culture all around. It's a beautiful culture of mythology, a beautiful culture of dance, a beautiful culture historically, and people want to connect to that. And playing the instrument makes them feel like they can connect to their ancestry to the culture, which is something we don't have a lot of Americans. It's a mixing pot here, we don't have really what I would consider anyway, as someone who's very into folklore, a distinct American culture all as one. Of course, we have many different kinds of people with different cultural backgrounds. But I think that's why a lot of people here and there are so many festivals and things like that. People want to connect to some kind of culture that is either in their ancestry or that they're just really drawn to. And I think ballet is very much like that, in that most people are probably not taking ballet just because they want to get some exercise.
Julie: Right, very unusual.
Kara: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I'm sure it happens.
Julie: There's much more efficient ways to get exercise.
Kara: Yeah, for sure. I think people are taking ballet because they at some point in their lives have had a dream that they could feel like they were on stage in the Nutcracker. Or they, whether they actually do or not, could envision themselves in a tutu, and you know, being graceful, and the entire aesthetic that goes with ballet, that it is beautiful, because I find it super beautiful as well. And I think people want their hobby to be transforming. And I think they want it to be imaginative, and to take them someplace else for a little while. And that's why we as teachers, if you really care, which I know you do, and I know I do. And I know a lot of other great teachers, who do you want to give people that experience because you know how meaningful it is to you yourself.
“People want their hobby to be transforming. They want it to be imaginative, and to take them someplace else for a little while”
Julie: Yeah, it's so true. The excitement of sharing it with someone is actually quite immense when you really love it yourself.
Kara: Absolutely.
Julie: So it's interesting, you talk about this 80-year-old man who you taught, and he seems to have not thought that he was too old to get started. But I know a lot of people come to me thinking that they're too old to learn something. Do you have that same experience?
Kara: Pretty much every time, I would say I rarely have someone who starts with me as an adult. And you know, we're talking ages, maybe 21 to up into their 60s, as a general age range of the people I would say I have started the most often. And the attitude is no different for the people in their 20s than it is for their 50s this, the people in their 20s still think that they're too old and will ask.
Probably just about every inquiry that I get starts out with, “I know I'm old to be starting” or “Maybe I'm too old” or “I don't know if you accept adult students” or “I don't know if there's any hope for me ever.” And it breaks my heart to be honest, even after doing it for all these years and being so used to people thinking that way. I still am always kind of jarred by it to see it written down or to hear it in-person, that that is how deep this idea runs with people that even at 21 years old, they've seen some five-year-old prodigy somewhere, so they think “Well, I didn't start at five, so I'm too old to start now.” And I wonder how many people and I bet you do to working with adults, How many people let that stop them for another 20 years, and then they're in their 40s. And they're thinking, “Well, now it's really too late.”
“Even at 21 years old, they’ve seen some five-year-old prodigy somewhere, so they think “Well, I didn’t start at five, so I’m too old to start now.” And I wonder how many people let that stop them for another 20 years, and then they’re in their 40s. And they’re thinking, “Well, now it’s really too late.”
And it's like, Well, okay, it's not. But also, if you would have started 20 years ago when you initially thought it was too late, you'd be a master by now.
I understand we live in a society where I think especially women… I do think it's particularly terrible for women… feel like they are too old by the time they're out of college, basically. And it's absurd, it's ridiculous, it needs to stop immediately.
Women are amazing and beautiful in every age group. And it really isn't ever too late.
“Women are amazing and beautiful in every age group. And it really isn’t ever too late”
It's only too late. by the time that you just, you can't do it anymore. You physically can't do it. And that's probably maybe a little bit more of a concern with something as physical as ballet, but with an instrument, it really shouldn't be. And also there should be some kind of instrument you could play at any stage of your life.
Julie: Yeah. Well, and even with dancing… you can sit in the chair and do port de bras. You can have you can express something through your movement no matter what you can do physically.
I've told this story on the show before, but I think it's important in this context too. One of the most touching performances I ever saw was a group of dancers, maybe in their 70s, or 80s, who all had Parkinson's disease, and they had all lost a spouse, and they were dancing on stage about having lost their spouse, and there was an empty chair in the corner, and I'm gonna cry. And there was it was like, very intense, and they're just, you know, but I'm gonna, I'm literally gonna cry here. It was, like, very, very touching. I mean, they couldn't walk. But they were sharing a very important part of their life with us.
Kara: Yeah. Well, and just to quickly, segue back to the folklore thing, because I, I'm obsessed, everything always comes back to folklore for me. There are a lot of societies in the world, and certainly, a lot of societies throughout history, where not only did you not lose anything in the eyes of the people around you as you got older, you gained it. If you were the elder, of a tribe, or of a clan, you were the wisest, most sacred, most respected person there.
And we just kind of have a slightly different view, I think, of getting older here. I feel like, not a day goes by that I don't hear someone say either to me or, or to someone else. something along the lines of “Oh, yeah, getting older sucks,” or like “Getting older is the worst.” I think it's unfortunate, really, because, as far as I know, none of us can cheat it. So I don't know why we would want to walk around saying that. I hope I never get to an age where I say that to a young person. I hope I never ever get to an age where I look at like one of my young students or younger friends and say, “Yeah, you know, enjoy life now because it's going to all go and be terrible when you're older.”
It's a really negative way of looking at getting older, when, like you said, maybe you will have to adjust your expectations a little bit for certain things. But at any age, you could bring someone to tears with the way you express your art form.
“At any age, you could bring someone to tears with the way you express your art form.”
Julie: Right. It's, it's really so true. And I think there's a difference in how we personally view older people and how we view them on a larger scale. Because I think we all love to sit and listen to our grandparents and to the older people in our life and to anyone who's been through a lot. And I think, in my younger years, in my early 20s, all I wanted to do was to be old and wise so that I could have that kind of experience because I just admired so much the older people in my life at work, who could be in the face of crisis and just be totally chill and know what to do in that circumstance. And I always wanted to be around that and be that, and so I think for me, I've always admired age and age and wisdom. But societally, I also have this internalized sense that I don't want to get old and I don't want to be old. I don't want to lose my abilities in my body. And you know, we don't want to lose these things. We all have that inside but on another level, I love old people, they're awesome, they have so much to offer and it's incredible.
Kara: I agree and I completely relate to that. I mean, I I'm not going to be a hypocrite about it. I also don't particularly look forward to getting to an age where I lose certain abilities, but I try not to let that affect the way I live my life. I don't see any point in dwelling on it.
Julie: And you get new abilities, you get new wisdom, you get new, maybe better in some ways. There's a lot of things about being old that seem pretty cool. Like maybe stuff doesn't phase you as much. Maybe you're more self-assured and more confident. And you know, there's all kinds of things that you get. Certainly at 30, I feel a lot better than when I was 20.
Kara: Absolutely. I feel the same way. Yeah, for sure.
Julie: So I have one more topic, one more point I want to ask you about in this whole too old thing. There's many areas where we don't have this. I feel like for whatever reason, music and the arts have this too old thing, but like, no one's wondering if you're too old to start running. People are doing that all the time. No one's wondering if you're too old to like, be promoted to manager at work, which is an entirely new skill set that you would be learning at work. You know, when it comes to having kids we're getting we're okay with having kids older and older. And that's, you know, you have your career, then you have kids. And that's an entirely new endeavor that you're willing to start at the age of 30 or 40 that's going to take you 20 years to figure out.
We're so open to other things that will take us 10 to 20 years to learn. But we're so not open to music and arts, which is going to take us 10 to 20 years to learn. I don't understand, do you? What do you think about that?
Kara: I think part of it is just a stigma that has gotten attached. Maybe promoted by people being exposed to videos of very young people who are really, unusually good, even at what they do, prodigies.
I don't know, I think that's part of it. I think that people believe that if this, like I said before, like, if this five-year-old kid is a prodigy at something, then why should they bother? The funny thing is, that doesn't change at any age. I mean, here in my 30s, I'm surrounded by people, by peers, who are much better than me at everything, of all ages, kids and adults, and actually was from a young age because being I started playing out, like playing shows professionally, when I was really young. I mean, probably 12, I guess, 12 or 13, I started playing shows with my dad. And I was I played with people who were all much older than me, I was playing with people who were generally in their 40s and up when I was a little kid. So I felt like, honestly, terrible all the time. I felt like I was awful. I didn't feel like a child prodigy. Or I didn't feel like I was really good. Because I was a kid and had all this time ahead of me to learn by playing with these adults. I felt like I was terrible, because I was a kid who was still trying to learn things, playing with people who were masters in their field, who were getting closer to being like middle-aged, and had all that lifetime of experience under their belt.
So I grew up very, very humble. I hated listening to myself. There were many times that I was in tears when I had to… when you record something, you listen to like 10 million mixes of what you've recorded, and I hated it. I hated listening. Because I was like, “I'm terrible. I'm just a little kid, these people are all really good.”
So it's funny to me because I wonder if… I'm sure that there are some of these really little kids out there who are like, “Yeah, we're fantastic at what they do.” But I also think there are a lot of kids who these adults are looking at being like, “Wow, that kid's amazing. I shouldn't even bother starting.” And the kids like, “Dude, I've only done this for like two years. Like, I'm not good. I need like a lifetime of study ahead of me.” You know, and I don't know, I think it's kind of funny in a way.
But I think people are afraid to start dance and music because they feel like there's a time limit on it. I really don't know why with music. I think that's probably very much a pop music type of thing. You have to be on the Disney Channel, right? You have to be like 20 years old, and you have to look a certain way and that's very much pop music thing that that really doesn't exist in traditional music and really even in a lot of other kinds of music as well. But most people are exposed to pop music. So that's how they are always going to think of music, is you have to be like a 20-year-old, very attractive Disney Channel star in order to make it. So if you're 45, it's too late. Well, okay, it might be too late to be a Disney Channel pop star, but it's most certainly not too late to learn music. And I can guarantee you no one cares.
“But I think people are afraid to start dance and music because they feel like there’s a time limit on it.. So if you’re 45, it’s too late. Well, okay, it might be too late to be a Disney Channel pop star, but it’s most certainly not too late to learn music.”
But with ballet, I would guess. And I'm sure you're much more enlightened on this and that I am, I think probably people think the same thing that it's very physically demanding. And that they know that your chances of having a professional career are very slim after a certain age. So I suppose they think well, why would I even bother starting, then it's too late. But then the question is, well, what is it too late for it? Clearly, it's not too late for thinking about getting up onto pointe, which I know is a huge issue amongst people. Because when I started ballet, which I've done ballet off and on throughout my life in little spurts, but when I seriously started again, about three years ago, I was like, “Oh, yeah, I don't think adults can probably do pointe” because it had never been mentioned to me that it was a possibility.
So I also was affected by that idea of “Yeah, I guess probably adults can't do that.” Or like “My feet are not very good for it. I'm sure you have to have really certain feet,” and all of this stuff. But I guess I never thought to myself, “Oh, I couldn't get strong enough to do it.” Or, you know, “I couldn't become decent at it.” But again, it's back to what we were talking about those expectations, I wasn't going into it thinking, yeah, I'm going to be a professional at this not that I'm sure there are opportunities. Even if there aren't a ton, I'm sure there's something but I wasn't going into it with like, “Oh, I'm gonna try to join, like a professional ballet program” I just wanted … I just really enjoyed it. And I just really wanted to do it. And so maybe that's the heart of it. What we should be telling everyone do you just really enjoy it and want to do it, then don't worry about getting to a certain point, like the only guidelines out there really are the ones you're setting for yourself.
Julie: It's really the crux of it, I think because there's a difference between making it to the Olympics, and enjoying something right. It's too late for most people to make it to the Olympics, even when they started at a young age, like five people get to go to the Olympics. And like five people get to be professional pop musicians, and like five people get to be professional ballet dancers at the New York City Ballet. So even if you started at a young age, the chances that you make it to the literal, half a percent at the top is actually next to none, for any for anyone. Someone makes it there, you can work hard and get there, there are so many factors into it. Not that you can't do it. But the number of people who actually have that chances are very low to begin with. Because there's so many of us who want it and so few spots.
But that doesn't mean that there isn't a massive pyramid of people who are just like enjoying the heck out of it performing at their church performing at their local community, performing in a ballet company with adults, making their own company, making videos on the internet. Like there's a massive pyramid below that tiny percentage of people who are willing to sacrifice their life for this art form.
And that's what it would take to get to the top. And most of us, I'm not willing to do that. I'm not willing to do that. I faced that choice in my early 20s, where I kind of harbored the idea of going pro, and then did some training programs and was like, No, this isn't… I have way too many different interests, there's no way I can be single-minded, and that's what it would take to get there. But I just love the heck out of it. And there is a place, there is room for just loving the heck out of it. You don't have to need you don't have to be in that half a percent at the top to love the heck out of it and make your life more fulfilling.
Kara: Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. And I completely relate to that, as someone who has just a bunch of hobbies and interests myself and always has, I've never been able to easily answer the question, “What do you want to do when you grow up?” And I'm grown up now, and I still can't fully answer it. Because there are a lot of things that I want to do. And that's something that I always tell my adult students when they start, you know, what are you wanting to get out of this? Because you're the only one who's going to put a limitation on yourself.
“You’re the only one who’s going to put a limitation on yourself”
You know, for me, I knew from a young age that I didn't just want to be a musician. Now as I get older and older. That is how I think of myself first and foremost, you know that that's how I describe myself. That's my job. But that was never the only thing that I wanted to be I went to college for ancient history and folklore. I mean, I didn't go to school for music, I never wanted to. I'm glad, I don't regret that I think I think I would have hated it. But I always wanted to foster a bunch of different interests. And I'm really grateful that I found a way to kind of bring them all together in my life. There's a lot of crossover with my interest in folklore and with folk music, of course, it goes hand in hand. I don't know that I foresaw that when I was a kid that I ever would have thought of it. I remember being really little and wanting to be a teacher. My mom is a teacher. And then as I got older, I was for some reason really offended by the idea that people would only see me as a teacher. I don't know why, like in my teens. I was like, “I'm not a teacher I do. It's just a thing that I do.” And now I fully embrace that title. And when people say, “Oh, she's a teacher and a musician,” I don't correct them and say, “No, I'm a musician.” I am a teacher. And I really enjoy that. It's become a big part of my identity and is one of the most fulfilling things that I do in everyday life. And as much as I miss performing, I get so much joy out of being able to at least help other people discover something that they might love.
So it's I'm just I'm really grateful. It's been an insane year, no one could have foreseen that something like this would come in and change our day to day life so drastically and change for you, for me, for a lot of other people, our actual careers, our actual businesses. But it did. And you either have the option to say, well, then I guess I'll throw in the towel. Or you make it work somehow you keep plodding along. Because what else can you do?
Julie: It's still your life, right? It's still every day of your life, you still want to make you still want to do the things that matter to you and that matter to the world around you.
Kara: Absolutely.
Julie: So it's funny, we talked very little about ballet. But we talked all about ballet at the same time, right? Because these issues that we face, as adult learners in general, are universal, I think throughout the arts. Throughout all of this, where, you know, we just, we feel like it's too late. We feel like our life is passing us by we feel like all these things, but really now is the time, now is the best time. I usually finish with some ballet related device. But I want to finish with general advice. We've talked a lot about it not being too late for adults and them taking the time for themselves. Why is it important for adults to bother to take some time take time for themselves to do something that someone might see as frivolous of learning how to point their toe better? Or learning how to you know, play an instrument? Why does that matter? Why should we take the time for that?
Kara: Well, I think going back to what we were talking about earlier, I think it's meditative. I think it's transformational. I think that adults are told, as they get older, that it's not okay to imagine anymore, that imagination is for children. But of course, anybody in the arts is gonna laugh at that, because you think movies are being written without imagination, you think dances are being choreographed, you think music is being made? All these people are using their imaginations and their creativity to do that.
“I think that adults are told, as they get older, that it’s not okay to imagine anymore, that imagination is for children. But of course, anybody in the arts is gonna laugh at that, because you think movies are being written without imagination, you think dances are being choreographed, you think music is being made? All these people are using their imaginations and their creativity to do that.”
But I think that for a lot of adults, especially depending on where they've grown up, what kind of careers they have ended up in, maybe even what kind of family they're surrounded with. Creativity is almost discouraged.
I really hope this changes, I see this changing a lot with the younger generations that I spend time with, and I think that it will change, and I think that's fantastic.
But I think that that for some people, and especially maybe for certain age groups of people, there's this idea that life should be very serious. And you know, you need to do your duties, you need to complete your routine, you need to make money. Of course, we do all have to live, we do all have to make money to live off of to some degree. But I think there's maybe in certain generations, there's a real focus on that, that like the most important thing is that you have a steady job and that you can do all of these things that that are expected of you as an adult in daily life (#adulting).
And, to choose a hobby is to choose to make time for yourself. And I think personally, I think it's to choose to make time to imagine something else. To imagine something outside of the life that you're currently living.
“To choose a hobby is to choose to make time for yourself. And I think personally, I think it’s to choose to make time to imagine something else. To imagine something outside of the life that you’re currently living.”
Maybe that's getting a little bit too outside the box. I don't know but, but that's how I see it. I think for a lot of my students who again are coming to me to learn folk music and to also learn about the culture and to connect with the culture. They come in, maybe inspired by a show like River Dance or maybe inspired by a movie or even just inspired by going to Ireland, which is one of the most magical places in the world. And they want to recapture that. So there is an imaginative, creative process to that.
It's not just that they want to make time to sit down and do something, I think they want to make time to be someplace else for that lesson or that class, and to imagine, maybe a part of their life that they would like to change, for the better.
“It’s not just that they want to make time to sit down and do something, I think they want to make time to be someplace else for that lesson or that class, and to imagine, maybe a part of their life that they would like to change, for the better.”
And I'm not saying that it's someone coming in saying, “I don't like my life.” I don't think it's bad at all. But I think all of us like to sit and daydream. And if you can do that, while also learning a new skill, I think that's what keeps people coming back. I think that's what hooks people on something is that feeling of, I'm learning something, and it's transporting me to a world that I love.
Julie: Yeah, that's wonderful. It's so true. You can just be someone else for a moment you can have the freedom to be you. And sometimes you don't even know who you are. And so it's a process of learning who you are, who you want to be when you grow up, who you are in your soul.
Kara: Exactly. And I think that time and time again, of doing this, you do initially start out, seeing yourself as someone else. And it culminates in you realizing that you've been that person all along, and it took this learning process for you to grow to a point of seeing that. And I think that's the best thing in the world. And that can happen at any age. This isn't just a growth process for children. This happened to this man in his 80s. He achieved that image because he did come in with an image. We can't make it out to be this really black and white thing. This man came in, he imagined himself sitting on his porch playing a tune on his fiddle. I'm sure he had a picture in his mind. It was too specific of a request. He saw this version of himself. And that's what he wanted, in his final time on earth. And to watch him achieve that, yeah, I'll never forget it. I'll never forget that process. And it changed me as a person and it changed me as a teacher. And obviously having brought it up at the beginning of our conversation. I think about it often.
“You do initially start out, seeing yourself as someone else. And it culminates in you realizing that you’ve been that person all along, and it took this learning process for you to grow to a point of seeing that. And I think that’s the best thing in the world. And that can happen at any age. This isn’t just a growth process for children”
Julie: Iincredible. I think this conversation has been incredible. I feel both happy and about to cry and inspired and just so… I really enjoyed this conversation I feel like there's so much in common in our journeys, and even though as I said, we hardly touched on ballet, I feel like we touched on ballet in all the ways that our listeners and our fellow adult dancers need to hear.
Kara: I'm so glad it was such a pleasure to talk to you Julie.
Julie: So much fun.