Broche Banter #13 -- Jackie

Today on the show, we have Jackie, our very own podcast editor and a Broche dancer and instructor!

On this episode, we talk about the community of ballet, why we love dance, and Jackie’s journey to becoming a teacher.

Enjoy!

Julie: I'm excited to have you on the show today Jackie, because you are behind the scenes editing everything, getting to hear all these stories. And now we get to hear yours.

Jackie: Yeah.

Julie: So you are obviously the editor of this podcast and also one of our teachers here at the studio and the dancer at the studio. And you've been at the studio since my gosh, almost the very beginning. And maybe the first group or the second group or one of the very early groups of people who are part of the studio. So I'm excited to hear your hear your story. I know like most of your story, but I'm sure I don't know it all from beginning to end in one sitting. So I'm excited to actually hear it.

Jackie: Yeah.

Julie: So what's the beginning? Where did it all start for you?

Jackie: Um, so I started dancing for the first time in my freshman year of high schools 1415 and before that, I certainly never saw myself as a dancer, I skateboarded from like, eight to 10 and then I played football in middle school. And I like thought about wanting to play wanting to like do track and just a lot of like, more sporty things like that. And I didn't consider dance one of those things at all. One because it was like, I thought it was something you had to do when you're really little and that you had to be like really a graceful person, which I didn't consider myself at all. And so yeah, just like it really never was on my radar.

““And I didn’t consider dance one of those things [that I wanted to do] at all. One because it was like, I thought it was something you had to do when you’re really little and that you had to be like really a graceful person, which I didn’t consider myself at all. And so yeah, just like it really never was on my radar. ””

Even though in my kindergarten continuation, when they asked what you wanted to be when you grew up, I said a ballerina teacher. And my mom was very confused. She, because we've never put me in any dance classes ever. So she was just like, she just wants to wear a tutu, and she wants to be a teacher. And that's where she got that. So that was like the only time I'd ever mentioned dance was when I was like six years old and then never again.

So when I got into high school, I I joined a dance class kind of on accident, because that was like really elective left that wasn't full. So there was like a Broadway dance class at my school that was like ballet jazz.

And like, modern, I guess. And so it was kind of like a weird combination of things. It was kind of like a crash course on all of those things. And I remember the first day that I came in, I was immediately thinking, like how I need to get out of this. And that it was not. It was like definitely a mistake. And all the other girls have experience in dance at some point, and I had zero and our first kind of subject was ballet. And so we just had a couple barre and we were doing a barre class and just kind of going through the basics and I felt like obviously I was doing everything wrong and that it was just super embarrassing. But I just I couldn't get out of it. So I had to stick with it.

Um, and then my teacher came back around eventually a couple weeks later and asked if I had ever danced before. She said no and she said that I should and that's like all she said, she said you should. And that was it. I just went full steam ahead. And I did a dance concert in the in the spring. And that was kind of like while I was still learning how to dance that I was also performing and and I joined a like proper ballet studio probably by the end of that year. And and that's like, kind of how just how it started.

And then I was like obsessed and all over like all through the summer until I could get into a valley studio doing it at home and watching everything I could about it and reading everything I could about it. I was just yeah, it just got me obsessed.

Julie: So okay, so you, you know you want to be a ballerina teacher at the age of six or five or six right? Okay, so did you when you were 14 getting into this elective? Did you remember that? Did you remember that? That's what you said at that time or had that already faded from your memory?

Jackie: No, that that was pretty much already gone and something I thought about about it.

Julie: It was a whim It was like, tutus are cool.

Jackie: Yeah. Right.

Julie: It was a whim but like deep rooted?

Jackie: Yeah, yeah, apparently, I did not know.

Julie: So age six, you were like, I wanna be a ballerina teacher. And then you said, nevermind. I want to be super sporty and athletic and went that route. And then at 14, you got stuck in a dance class. On the first day of the dance class when you said you thought it was a mistake. Did you think it was a mistake before you got to class? Or did you get to class see the other girls and then decide it was a mistake?

Jackie: As soon as I saw it on my schedule, like we got our schedule, like a month earlier, whatever. And I saw it and I was like, Oh, no. I was very worried about it. And like also in a way that I was even in there.

Julie: Ha, the irony. So what did you What did you wear to this but did you have to wear ballet stuff to this class could you wear sweats like what was the what paint us a picture what that looked like?

Jackie: Yeah so um there was we have like two buildings at our school like a South building in orange building and it was in this The Old South building and on like a stage and they're just like mirrors on one side of the wall and then the cafeteria was basically just right there but we had like curtains to cover when classes in But no, we didn't have to wear ballet clothes. I just wore I think I just kind of wore whatever I was wearing already. Which is like so like weird to think about now like so kind of cringy to think about that. But I think I kind of like lived in leggings anyway at that point. And so it just kind of worked out and then I started wearing just more like just comfortable like yoga clothes more like I didn't start wearing like proper ballet stuff till I went to school.

Julie: Were the other girls wearing ballet stuff in the class.

Jackie: No, they were usually wearing more like, like what you would expect for like lyrical, where they'd be wearing like pads, you know, like the toe pads instead of like a full shoe and, and only had to get Jazz shoes. Did you remember that sounds like my first pair of like dance shoes with jazz shoes. But yeah, they were like, definitely prepared for like dancing and I was not.

Julie: That's sort of intimidating to be 14 and hop into a class with people who've been doing it for a while.

Jackie: Yeah, it was just it was immediately like I like I just already knew I was not going to be fitting in or bonding by any means in there.

Julie: Did you feel like you blended once you got into the official Ballet School in the next fall by then did you feel like you blended or do you still feel like an outsider at that point?

Jackie: Well, my first studio was actually kind of more of an adult studio. So I was like, the second youngest person in the class and so I kind of felt different from the adults in the class but it wasn't like a bad different but it was more just like my teacher paid attention to me probably in a different way because she wanted me to continue with it in a way that the other adults were just kind of there to enjoy it. I don't recall feeling like super different well while I was in the studio

Julie: At that point did you What were your goals? Do you remember what your goals were? Do you just know you have to do it or did you have specific goals that you wanted with it?

Jackie: I think I think right away, I didn't really have any goals of it because I just didn't know what what you do with it. But I would like watch things and like notice, okay, so professionals and like pre professionals go to like an Academy, or intensives and things like that, so I guess I should probably try to do that. And I was kind of like an idea.

I wanted to go to like one of those really, you know, big ballet intensives like in New York City or something which I did not understand how much money that was at that time, but it was it was a dream that's for sure. So that was like one of the first things I can remember thinking about was like, wanting to do a big intensive like that because that's what I was watching videos on and stuff like

Julie: Wathing on YouTube?

Jackie: Yeah, social media, etc.

Julie: Right. Fascinating. Now when you were watching these videos, were you were you watching it kind of live it like dreaming up to it or were you watching comparing yourself to these people? What was that experience like watching the other dancers on online?

Jackie: Yeah, that's funny. I actually I never compared myself to anything. When I first was starting out. It was just like that this is all really cool. Like, I just want to do that, that looks really fun and never crossed my mind like, oh, they're better than me or, or why don't I look like that or anything really, when I was younger, and yeah, I just was like, that looks like fun and like what I want to do.

Julie: Did you have that attitude in sports as well, where you weren't comparing yourself to other people? Or was that? Did you do that in parts of your life and not others?

Jackie: I've never been competitive at all. So I just really, um, and that probably didn't help me in sports, but I I just kind of did what I liked and I didn't really care how much better or worse I was and other people and yeah, I didn't really ever do that when I was young at all compare myself.

Julie: Cool. That's awesome.

Jackie: Yeah, it worked out okay.

Julie: Yeah, that works out because it's hard when you compare yourself and ballet for sure.

Jackie: Yes, yeah, that came on later, but not not when I was first starting out.

Julie: When did that when did that start happening?

Jackie: Um, I think it I feel like it started happening more. When I joined my it's like second studio, because that studio was much more competitive. And they kind of made it a point to suggest like where one one thing is better than the other and like this is ideal because it's not and those things started coming out more when I was probably like 16/17, and also going to competitions before that. I started realizing that people do that. And I was like, oh, like, Why? Why is this like a Why is this so such a competitive thing? And like, well, I guess I'm at a competition and that's why I stopped doing competitions. Because I didn't like that energy, and it wasn't why I was doing it.

But then it got pretty undeniable, like hard to ignore when I got a little bit older. And the teachers were kind of pointing that out more as well.

Julie: So interesting. So it's kind of a learned behavior.

Jackie: Yes. Yeah.

Julie: So you mentioned competitions are not your jam. You're doing it for different reasons. Do you remember what the reasons were that you were doing it? Did you like performing? Did you like some other aspects of it? Or why you why you did it.

Jackie: I think initially, I remember it's like, I even remember what I was like wearing and everything the day that my teacher kind of said something to me about, like auditioning for the concert that I should be moving forward with it. And it I did feel it was just like such a calm like natural feeling in my body. And it was like, and I thought ballet would be totally unnatural, and feel so wrong in my body, but it didn't. And even though I was probably doing everything wrong at that point, like I saw myself now, but I still just felt really good while I was doing it. And I just remember that feeling a lot. And then it turned out I really liked performing, which I like don't like talking to other people. I didn't I sing and stuff. And I was in choir and I just hated all of that. being on stage in front of people doing anything else. But dancing for some reason. I was like, in my own world, and it just worked.

Julie: That's awesome. It's like a different way of expressing yourself without having to use your words.

Jackie: Right? Yeah.

Julie: Right. So at some point, you took a break from ballet. Was that after high school? Like, right at the end of high school?

Jackie: Yeah, yeah. In June, it was like June. The beginning of June was like my last performance and at my studio, and then that was it. I stopped.

Julie: Did you stop because the circumstance like you're out of high school and circumstance changed, or was it like it? You know, you wanted to quit?

Jackie: Um, yeah, I think. Yeah, definitely. It wasn't that I wanted to, but um, yeah, I was like, planning on going to college and possibly my minoring in dance. But um, that kind of fell through and I moved to Denver from Castle Rock, just just south of Denver, once I graduated to go to school, but then it just kind of fell through and I wasn't able to do that I just didn't dance, because I couldn't find anywhere to dance. So I quit for like a year and a half ish.

Julie: Did you want to dance while you were quit? Or did you let it kind of fade from your memory and fill it with other stuff?

Jackie: Yeah, I, um, I missed it for a little while, and then I I went through this like, feeling of just Well, I'm never gonna do anything with it again, and like, I can't make anything out of it anyway, I need to just drop it. So I like unfollowed anything that was ballet related, and I like, left all of my dance stuff at my like parents house and I just was like, we're moving on. It's a new thing. And I need to like, drop that.

““I missed [dance] for a little while, and then I I went through this like, feeling of just Well, I’m never gonna do anything with it again, and like, I can’t make anything out of it anyway, I need to just drop it. So I unfollowed anything that was ballet related, and I left all of my dance stuff at my like parents’ house and I just was like, we’re moving on. It’s a new thing. And I need to drop that. ””

That dream because it was it was like my entire life and I was doing school. Dance at school and dance at the studio and everything in between doing weekend intensives and all this stuff, and then all of a sudden it's just done. And all that work that I did was just like nothing is almost how I felt. And it was just kind of like, That was nice. It was a nice, like little time. And then I was like, Okay, now I need to like, figure out what I'm actually going to do.

Julie: Like grow up, right?

Jackie: Yeah.

Julie: So was it? Did you feel like it was maybe too painful to do just a little bit of ballet and you really had to like, take a clean break and like, package that up and ship it off? Is that kind of what I'm hearing?

Jackie: Yes. Yeah, totally. It was like too much to even like remember, belly It was like, or dancing in general. Yeah, it's just like, that's just it's just done. Like, I just need to move on from it. It's just part of my life is over.

Julie: Yeah. Yeah. So what changed?

Jackie: Um, I don’t know, I was at work. I was working at a restaurant like late nights. So like my sleep schedule is crazy. I was not taking the best care of myself. I wasn't like in a very good headspace. And I felt very like, stagnant, like nothing was going to be progressing. And I just was like, going to work at this restaurant forever and do nothing that I was passionate about. So I just Yeah, I was feeling like super. Like, I just needed it. I needed to change. And I knew that but I didn't know exactly what it was. And I think I was talking to just a coworker about that I used to dance or something. And then I just thought about it. I was like, Oh, yeah, I used to do that. And I like got off work. And I sat down and like this little lounge area that we would go to after work and I just looked up like dance classes near me and Broche came up and I was like, well I remember that for later, because I was like too scared to commit. And then I think like the next day, I think I registered for preview. And that was just I just found it. I was like, Okay, let's just see what happens.

Julie: Were you were you nervous?

Jackie: Yes, yes. I almost didn't go. And I was like talking to my grandmother about it. And she was like, You better go like, you just gotta try. And so I did because like she wanted me to, I don't know if I would have otherwise. Because it was like, super scary to like, think of seeing how, how much I've digressed. Or like seeing myself in a leotard like not ideal. Didn't really want to deal with any of that. Yeah, like super nervous, like shaking, nervous.

Julie: Were you scared about the emotions that might come back too, about kind of the past life, or you was any of that on your mind?

Jackie: Yeah, yeah, I was and it comes back to like, not being able to be full in it the way that I was before, and then facing again, I will never be professional because like I was still I still had that mindset no matter what, basically for a long time that I would never make anything of it anyway. And so it's like, Is it really worth it to like go through that again?

““I was and it comes back to [dance] and not being able to be full in it the way that I was before, and then facing again, I will never be professional because I still had that mindset no matter what, basically for a long time that I would never make anything of it anyway. And so it’s like, Is it really worth it to like go through that again?””

Julie: Right? Is it worth it to have it just a little bit when you really just want it all the way? Right?

Jackie: Yeah.

Julie: Now after the preview, I know I didn't see you for a while. Yes. You were probably were you nervous again after the preview, like you came in for the preview.

Jackie: We got through it, but then it was like, Oh my gosh, what have I done? Yeah, yeah. And I felt like I didn't do very well. I was like, very out of shape, like extremely out of shape. And because I hadn't, I wasn't doing anything at that time since I was working so much. I just, I didn't I wasn't doing anything. So I was very, very out of shape. And that was like, startling to experience I was like, wow, I have like a really long way to go even longer than I thought I did kind of. And then I kind of was like, again, is it worth it? to like go through all of this? And like, Is it even going to change kind of thing?

And then I got an email like in December, or maybe it was November, from you and it was it was just like a nice like, oh, like, she remembered me and like, wants me there. And I guess that's like, all it takes is somebody saying like, Hey, you can do it. And then I just I'm like, Okay, if you say so.

Julie: You must have really wanted to do it. You just needed a little push to get back into it.

Jackie: Yeah, I think so.

Julie: It's amazing, those voices in our own heads and what it takes to convince or or dissuade those voices. It sounds like your voice was like, you had 90% saying do it and that 10% was like, don't do it. And it only took one little push to be like, okay, fine, we'll do it.

Jackie: Right. Yeah.

Julie: Yeah. So, okay, so the preview lesson is only half an hour. And then obviously, your first class was probably 90 minutes. How? How did that go? Do you remember? You remember your first class?

Jackie: I remember being much more excited to be there unless a lot less nervous. I think because of that reassurance that I got from you saying we'd really like you here, so I think that helped a lot to make me feel a little bit better about just giving it a shot. And yeah, it didn't. I wasn't like as intimidated as I expected to be, I guess, and from it was just so different from how I was trained, in terms of behavior and like energy in the room, and it was just such a nice like an inviting environment and so I feel like I kind of jumped into it a lot more easily once we got started.

Julie: Did you did you ever want to quit once you started again?

Jackie: No.

Julie: No, that was all gone that though like packaged it up, set it aside, even though you're only doing it once a week that was all kind of gone.

Jackie: Yeah, yeah. Because it was it was getting me out of my house. Besides like going to work it was encouraging healthier behaviors. Because it's a lot harder to go to class when you are, you know, if you're tired or if you haven't eaten or if you you know, just whatever. So it just it was like keeping me grounded, which is always what ballet was for me. And just like getting that back for like just just like a tiny reminder for like one day a week. It was super helpful. And so yeah, after that, it just felt right.

““Ballet was getting me out of my house. Besides going to work it was encouraging healthier behaviors. Because it’s a lot harder to go to class when you are, you know, if you’re tired or if you haven’t eaten or whatever. So it just it was like keeping me grounded, which is always what ballet was for me. And just getting that back for just a tiny reminder for one day a week. It was super helpful. And so yeah, after that, it just felt right.””

Julie: And did you still want to be a pro at that point? Or did you? Or were these other reasons enough for you to want to keep doing it?

Jackie: Yeah, I think at that point, and the other reasons were enough, because I had kind of like, I think I accepted in my head that nothing ever was going to come of it. When I basically when I graduated, but I saw it in a lot worse light at that time. And then when I started again, I was like, well, at least it's just like something nice to do and something fun and like, some part of me, it's it's back, you know? That at that time, I think was enough. Yeah.

Julie: So I as the story continues, I remember you had basically flawless attendance to class you were always there. You never missed a beat. And if you did miss, you're always there to like, Come twice a week, the following week to make it up. And I remember you just ate everything up that we talked about, and we're just improving like crazy, week after week, which was so fun to see. And I remember we just kept moving you up the levels and you were always like, don't move me up. What's this? Like, I'm not ready for that level. I'm like, No, you are ready for that level.

Jackie: Yeah.

Julie: You remember Do you remember all this?

Jackie: I do. Yes. That was Yeah, I like my first class was, like a level two-ish. And I was like, This is great. And you're like, this is way too easy.

Julie: And I was like, I'm like, No, no, no.

Jackie: Yeah. And then when I first met, like Jessica, and everybody oh my gosh, I was so intimidated. I was like, like, this is not like Julie's gonna see this is not right. I need to come back. But yeah, it was, it was a challenge that I never really faced either because like most people, like my second studio didn't really acknowledge me very much. I just wasn't like at the top of the priority list. So to have somebody who is like always pushing me and always like believing that I can do more with something else and never really felt that before.

““My second studio didn’t really acknowledge me very much. I just wasn’t like at the top of the priority list. So to have somebody who is like always pushing me and always like believing that I can do more with something else and never really felt that before. ””

Julie: Well, we I pushed you very far obviously into, into teaching after maybe a year of being with the studio wasn't a year or was it more like a few months? Like, I feel like it was more like a year?

Jackie: Um, yeah, I think I started let's see, like at the end of 2017.

Julie: Okay, and you started teaching like halfway through 2018. So, about five, six months.

Jackie: Yeah. Yeah.

Julie: So basically, I was ready to bring on teachers to help with our beginner classes, and what better people than the people who already get what we're doing and what we're trying to do and how awesome adults are. So I invited Jackie to learn how to teach and to take some beginner classes. And then and then your schedule eventually grew to, you know, 20, 30 hours a week of teaching levels all the way up through pointe. So man, tell me about that experience from your perspective.

Jackie: It was, it's like, it's like still insane. It's like never like said never fully settled and it was just always like, I mean, I just I yeah, and couldn't believe it at all. And I yeah, I was really scared at first and I almost wanted to say no, because I was like, I can't I can't do that like, this is already a lot and I definitely can't teach people how to dance I don't even not dance. Like that is like I have so much to learn like how can I teach ballet to people? And yeah, I was like really really really nervous but I was like also so like, like honored to be a part of it. I just couldn't be more thankful. And it took like a good while for like the nerves to wear off. I remember my first class I was like shaking, like hear it in my voice and everything and I was like, oh my gosh. Like these people are not going to be convinced.

Julie: Well, if you were already you already mentioned, you don't like speaking in public and you don't like that sort of vocal thing. Did you find that in teaching as well?

Jackie: Yeah, I at first, I was like, I mean, this is like, exactly what I don't want to be doing is like talking, especially if it's been such an intimate environment with people who are just like, very actively only listening to you. Um, it was, yeah, pretty intimidating and people listening, telling, like me telling people what to do. I just wasn't used to like that leadership role. I'm not usually like a person to step up right away as a leader. So yeah, it was like a lot of new stuff. All at once, but it all turned out to be very much for the better.

Julie: So did it help you understand ballet better to teach it to other people?

Jackie: 100%. Yeah, yeah. Like, as I was explaining things, sometimes I'd be like, Oh, okay. It would be like right in the moment that I'd be like, Oh, that's, that's what it is. That's why and then other people sharing what they're feeling and like, Oh, this is happening. Why is this happening? And it could have been something that doesn't happen on my body. So it's just like a new outlook, a new perspective on it.

Julie: Was there anything you were any particular things that were surprising that someone said that they were feeling that you never felt before?

Jackie: I think it was just it was a lot of like a general feeling of people being so aware of what muscles were working. And for some reason, that was never something I thought too hard about, and I've learned so much about muscles and anatomy through that. Because people say, like, right here, right here, I feel this, like on the, you know, in like, a grande rond de jambe, and they're like, should I feel that in my hip, you know, and I'm like, well, should you? and so then I'm trying and I'm trying to feel what they're feeling. And then we talk about, you know, all of the muscles that we're using all the way through that movement.

It's something that I never thought of, because I just thought more, I guess, of the general like, movement, and not so much about how it should all feel that was never something that was really taught to me. When I first did my second studio, it was more just like the basics and kind of the aesthetic of it, but not so much the sport of it and what muscles you're using. So it just little things like that, I think helped me a lot become a lot stronger as a dancer.

Julie: Yeah, it's interesting that you refer to it as the “sport” of it. That's an interesting way to put it. It makes a lot of sense, the way you say that, because that part of it is a very different part. And I think a lot of people who I see coming back from from dancing as a kid don't have that part because with the kids, it's really difficult to get them to feel a muscle because they're so new in their body, they're so fresh in their body, whereas an adult you can often tell them like you should be feeling it like right here on this super specific spot. They can understand that. I think with kid training a lot of times we're like, they're so good at mimicking and mirroring, that you don't really have to tell them what muscle exactly to use, but adults are like, very curious about what specific muscles so it's really interesting that you refer to that as like the sport aspect of it.

Jackie: Yeah, yeah, that's what it feels like to me. And I was like, so frustrated almost like when I came to Broche because I was like, how did nobody like actually explain all this to me before this? And I'm sure people tried, and I just had no idea what they're talking about, and so I just kept like, I'm just gonna do it. You are doing and, you know, make it work somehow. But yeah, understanding actually, why and how was something that I've never even really thought of?

Julie: Do you like thinking of it now?

Jackie: Yeah. Oh, yeah. All the time. And I and it's still like, I mean, it's still comes up with students where they'll say something like, Oh, never heard that before. And I've never heard you know, that specific feeling before. But then now that you mentioned it, yeah. That is something that happens and you know, so like, that still happens every time I teach and it's something I think about every time I'm moving.

Julie: It's never ending never ending layers to uncover.