Broche Banter #22 -- Solange
Today on the show, Solange and I get philosophical. We hardly talk about ballet, but we talk about life, loss, perfectionism, what it means to be happy and live a passionate life in our short time on this earth, and how to find the right environment to follow your dreams.
This episode is jam-packed with inspiration, wisdom, and you’ll leave with a smile on your face, ready to dance!
Enjoy!
Before we get to the show, let’s take our Broche Bite!
On this segment, we’ll talk about bite-size ballet tidbits to give you something to chew on while you listen.
Today, we’ll talk about a ballet company that Solange and I reference in our upcoming conversation: the Trockaderos, or the “Trocks” for short. They’re an incredibly talented company of all male dancers!
The men of the Trockaderos perform the full range of the ballet and modern dance repertoire, including classical and original works, wearing tutus and on pointe. They add comedy to the seriousness of classical ballets by exaggerating the accidents, mixups, and underlying incongruities of serious dance.
By combining their technical strength and skills with their comedic angle, even audience members who are new to the ballet world enjoy their performances. If you’ve never seen them, go look them up after this!
Now, onto the show.
Julie: I'm so excited to actually get to chat with you. I mean, we've been chatting on live forever on YouTube. And now in the studio, obviously. So I'm thrilled to hear your story.
Solange: I'm very excited because I love ballet. And I've just discovered it. I mean, I'm 51 and I discovered it really at 50. I've never danced before. And really I think most people look at me like, “Oh, but you danced before?” “No!” “And you've just started!?”
It's like something. It's, you know, like you, you can't start this late. It's very strange. And I really do think it's possible. I mean, you're not going to be professional and all that, but it's, it's definitely possible. You don't have to have danced before to enjoy it, and that's what I really want to show people. You don't have to go back to ballet, I don't know, if I'm expanding myself. You can just learn ballet anytime it's there for you. It's wonderful, really it’s the best thing I could have ever done. It's good for my body, for my brain and for my soul. I mean, it's the best thing that you know,… it’s so complete. It's lovely.
Julie: It's true as. People don't understand that you can start at any time. People think “Oh, you know, you have to be young to learn or you have to be…” and I say you, let's say you're 50 you have decades still to learn! You're telling me you're gonna try something and learn it for 30 years and not figure it out? That's crazy.
Solange: No, but ballet is something that I mean well it's probably what people tend to see about ballet: you learn when you're small otherwise you don't you know you don't get them progressed and then most people leave it because it's very hard but then they go back because then they miss it.
But it's not something maybe that people think that you should or can learn.. it's not even possible Some people think it's not even possible that you can learn barely at 50 or… But you can! you can! I mean it's it is possible to learn and it's possible to get a little bit better every time you know a little bit a little bit, but it is possible. And I love that. I love that you can change the perspective of people you know the people tend to think “You know something cannot be learned from a certain age” and it's not true. Ballet is not one of those things. Maybe other things but ballet isn’t one of those.
No, I think I mean, it's up. I mean, it depends on on on your physical ability and everything, get mental stability and everything, but I do believe you could learn the basics. I mean, really, I mean, the other day I was I did a barre at home with different music. I mean, I just I just did a barre to see a few things with a song by the Cranberries, “Zombie.” And I was enjoying myself so much.
It was like “see, you can do it!” I mean it was just pliés, but you know, the basic, very basic, but you can do basic stuff, and enjoy yourself. Really, it’s so fun, it’s lovely!
Julie: Well in the dance, we just learned, the Don Quixote dance, there's three steps in it right? We've got arabesque, we’ve got tendu, we've got passé, we’ve got, but it's very difficult.
Solange: It's very difficult because when you don't know you really have you know, you can't you have to be checking everything at the same time. So you really can't, and then you're late two steps you late because you're trying to figure out where your foot goes. And then oh, I did I miss three steps. But I was wondering where my foot was going. Why was that? That happens to me a lot in frappés is, I mean, it's like, my foot is trying to come back flex. Why are you already going back and forth a lot, it’s not fair! [laughing']
But I do think those things get better. With practice. I think everything really gets better with practice. Really, it's a question of, you know, wanting, having the motivation and practicing and having fun.
““But I do think those things get better. With practice. I think everything really gets better with practice. Really, it’s a question of wanting, having the motivation and practicing and having fun.””
Just really having fun about it, you know, just laughing about it and you mess it up and you just mess it up and nothing's going to happen. The world's not going to …. no one's going to die. You know, you're not a heart surgeon and no one's going to die if you mess it up. It's just a It's just that I mean, it's ballet.
““Just really having fun about it, you know, just laughing about it and you mess it up and you just mess it up and nothing’s going to happen. The world’s not going to …. no one’s going to die. You know, you’re not a heart surgeon and no one’s going to die if you mess it up. It’s just a It’s just that I mean, it’s ballet.””
So really, I really, I think I think it's the best thing anyone could be doing.
Julie: Well, I obviously agree, because that is what I do for my life. So I obviously agree with that. It's really, it's fun. And I think it gives you just a new a new Mind Body connection, right? It really teaches you to control your mind and your body, but then also control it and let it go at the same time. So you learn the details of how to do something but then you have to ultimately let your body do it and you can't supervise every emotion of it. So it does require you to trust your body as well in different way that you don't really have to do.
Solange: No, but it does mean it requires a different a different type of memory also, then you may be you know, you don't have, you haven't practiced it because you have other type of memory: mental memory or visual memory or other types of memory you use for your daily life. But it's a different type of memory. Because it's not your brain …. well it probably is your brain that's telling you what to do … but it's your body that's doing it, it's different. And then suddenly, there are moments when it flows, you know, and I find that in pliés and tendus only. But sometimes, you know, you get this and it goes in and out and everything flows and you say, Oh, and I wasn't really thinking about having my back straight and it was happening. I think that's so lovely. It's a lovely feeling really.
Julie: It is there's nothing like it really physically. Nothing like it.
Let’s go back to the beginning! Where did your life begin?
Julie: Okay, so you started ballet at 50 having never danced before, which also to me is amazing because you have such a presence when you move. What were you doing for the first 50 years?
Solange: I mean, it's just it's a walking presence. It's a walk in the room. It's a it's a presence… You need to walk in the room, walk around the room walk out of the room. That's like that. Wow.
I know I mean, I actually I was actually born in, in Argentina. But we came back to Spain when I was three years old. And I had a French grandmother which is that's where my name comes from. And then on my mother's side, I had a Russian grandfather, which is probably where the height and coloring maybe come from, but we came, well, my parents were divorced, so we came back to Spain when I was three.
And my mother was a lover of arts, everything, I mean she loved music but especially classical music. It was classical music all the time. Morning, afternoon night, and she left come to concerts and she loves going to opera and she loves going to ballet and she took me with her. So I remember going everywhere. I had this dark blue velvet dress, you know sort of very girly. And I went everywhere and I do remember the first ballet, it was the Nutcracker. I've never seen ballet because you didn't have TV back then. I mean, it's a long time ago and back in Spain was a long time ago. And it was you know, so beautiful. So amazing. So magical.
Everyone the way they dance ….. so magical and I remember having you know you a typical six year old girl or seven year old saying I want to do that and I do believe she took me to a couple of classes but it probably wasn't a good schedule or probably didn't work out for her. So I don't remember really go into those classes, you know, I but I remember that the magic, the magic of ballet. It was so.. it was magical.
And then nothing else really, I kept.. I enjoyed going to ballet. I've always enjoyed seeing ballet and I've always enjoyed hearing ballet, but I never thought I could dance. After that I grew up, I mean, I grew tall. I'm tall. I don't know how I would say that in feet, but it's 170 centimeters.
Julie: Yes, how much is back in me just look up 170 cm
Solange: [laughing] I don't know how many how many feet ….
Julie: Ok, so that’s five foot six. I think I am a little bit taller than you even.
Solange: You could be!
Julie: Yeah, five foot nine.
Solange: You could I be, but, um, you're younger. And I mean, your generation is taller. But for my generation, and in Spain, I was tall.
Julie: So, were you taller than your mother?
Solange: Yes, yes. I was taller than my mother, I was taller than most of the class. So I played football. I played basketball. I you know, all those things. I never thought I could be, I could do ballet. And then I wasn't girly back then, I know it's difficult to believe it but I was I wasn't very girly. I was really a very I was very, I was a tomboy, very tomboyish, especially from 11 years on because my mother wanted me to be girly. And I didn't want to do what my mother wanted. You know? It was like that.
Julie: It's all a waste, because now you are, know.
Solange: No, no, no, she’d she’d love to see me so flowery. She'd love it. She died a long, long time ago, but she would she'd love to see me.
But I never thought about ballet. I love music, but I don't have a good …. I can't sing for instance, I'm totally, I mean, it's completely impossible. I mean, I can't it's just one note, you know, just a flat, flat, horrible.
And I love music, but I'm also a little bit …. I don't know if you have body dyslexia, you know when you think “Oh, my right arm” and you go “Oh, no, that's my left arm. Okay. No my right! No, okay, let me see left leg right arm goes…..” It's, I'm not very good. It's my coordination is not good. It never has been actually it hasn't. So it's something that's difficult. It's not what you would assume you know, ballerinas have to be so coordinated and then you really think they're so delicate and they're not.
I mean it's like one of the strongest workouts that you can have. I mean, it's really difficult.
““It’s not what you would assume you know, ballerinas have to be so coordinated and then you really think they’re so delicate and they’re not. ””
But I never thought I could. So I just didn't really do much of anything. And then when I was 50, typical, you know, and your back pain and you getting them you need you see you have to get into that should be moving, I should be doing something, I need some exercise, I need to do something. What everyone says Pilates
Julie: Right.
Solange: So I looked for a place and I was in a waiting list and they can have any space and I said Well, I'll still need to do something and I have a friend who had another friend who had a set up a small studio in Ibiza. They're Cuban. She's a Cuban dancer. Brilliant, really. I mean, she's glorious. And it's a Cuban School, which I didn't really know that but they're very good. And it's very good. She's very good. And she set up a school and they have classes for for adults. So I said, “Well, I can try maybe.” And I went to learn lyrical class. She called it lyrical, but it was really about an hour long and it was about 15 minutes of body conditioning. And then about 10 minutes of choreography or center or diagonals or something like that. And it was the hardest workout I've done in my life. I trembled throughout the 15 minutes and it was a Thursday, and I remember because that was a Thursday afternoon and on Saturday I couldn’t walk!
Everything I mean everything from you know, from the top to the bottom. I’ve never worked out so hard! So I went back on Tuesday because I'm very stubborn. I mean, I'm, I am terribly stubborn. I have been a lot of determination and I'm very stubborn. So I went back.
Then it was Christmas time. So then we dropped it and then next, next course I went back and there was another teacher that came to do the other classes. He's a Cuban dancer as well. Contemporary, brilliant. Very top class, very top notch and so I started to do contemporary.
Julie: Wow.
Solange: Yes, I mean, it was like what am I doing here? You know, because It was a little class because there were so many adults really, you know, here barely is. There's a lot of children and teenagers maybe. And less adults, and they all had either a lot of years at dancing. Oh, they were about 25 years younger. Their conditions, you know, they were the physical conditions were different. And he obviously did a great job of making me think I could do it, which is an important part of anything is you making you believe you can do it? But that was also when I realized I don't have the technique. I mean, I don't even know what he's saying. He's saying Put your foot somewhere. I mean, where's that foot supposed to be going? I mean, you can’t… you know, it was. So I started doing ballet.
And I did both both at the time, but that was when I started to realize ballet was the basis. It's not only that I needed it and it was good for me because after my first ballet class, it was the first time that my…. you know, I, my back tends to bend … it's the first time that I went, you know, I went out of class and I was walking straight. And I said, Whoa, and then every time I did ballet, it was like, the mental chatter disappears. So my body it's, it was good for my body. It was good to my brain. And it was so good for my soul to my spirit. And I was really happier every day I did I did ballet
““My back tends to bend [forward] but after my first ballet class, it was the first time that I went out of class and I was walking straight. And I said, Whoa!
And then every time I did ballet, it was like, the mental chatter disappears. So it was good for my body. It was good for my brain. And it was so good for my soul to my spirit. And I was really happier every day I did ballet ””
And I still did contemporary try to at least it was really try to because it's a it's a very different sort of thing and it's but I obviously realized it was ballet, what I really you know what I really needed. So that's it really.
During lockdown, I found you. Because when I had when, when we went back, we really, really didn't go back like it used to be. I mean, I don't know what was there but in Spain, we'd been from March to June lockdown, maybe. And then when we went back to the studio, it was very short while and it was different. So online dancing has really become a lot more common now, which is good. Also, I believe. Not the same as a studio.
But I enjoy it a lot because I'm quite introverted, too. So I don't really need to go out and be around people and you know, I'm, I'm fine at home. And I'm enjoying myself a lot because I know I'm really getting better. I'm getting stronger and more flexible and I’m getting better, little by little. So I'm enjoying myself a lot. And I remember when I was in the studio when I was in there in the in the studio everyone all the little …. ballet class was obviously full of teenagers, preteens and teenagers and they were all most of them doing pointe because it was the the, the more adult class and I was also with adult women, who had danced a lot, so I was always in the in the middle trying to be in the middle of the class so I had someone in the front every time we turned because I I was getting lost.
I mean, what happens when you start but you get lost because you don't start from scratch. Which is what I've been doing with you, which is what I like, because with you, I started from scratch, you know the basics and it's wonderful.
Julie: It's the beginning of all of it right? The basics, the posture, the muscle usage. Later, you can make it fancy.
Solange: You know to be told things how, how you should be learning them because I like the analogies you you know you're using, it's very easy to understand. You explain things in a very easy way to understand, it's the basic. I think it's like, what I would have learned when I was six only with an adult brain so you can tell me things in another way. But it's really like the basics, you know, at the studio I'd never done 3rd. They always did fifth. It was terrible. Because I couldn't plié in 5th. It’s like my knees don’t go that way! And you try to turn our with your feet. And that's not the way things go.
But they were very nice. I mean, what's what I really think is nice, because they were all very nice. And they will say, “Well, you've never danced before but you want to learn.” “Yeah, cool.” It was like this lady, you know, this woman that's coming in and she wants to that's cool. Great. Great. Come on.
Julie: So funny.
And I like that, but it's something that everybody was surprised. But it was cool for everybody. And that's when I realized that it was probably my thinking or, you know, it's in you. You stop yourself from doing things. But you stop yourself. It's not… you think the world stops you, you think you're too old for the world or you think you're too hyped for the world or you think you don't have a dancer's body, but it's you, really, it's in your brain. It's in yourself that’s stopping you. The world doesn't think anything about a 50 year old woman dancing. It's like people really have other things to think about, but what you're doing, I think we've got all these things inside us that prevent us maybe from doing what we would want to do. And I especially remember a moment that was glorious when I emailed you, because I was asking about what, what the course is like, what would you do? What would you know? How should I do that? And you asked me three things. I remember one was, how do you like to learn? Because we have online classes and you know, pre-recorded. And I don't remember the second question, but I remember the third was, and “Would you want to be doing the journey towards pointe?” and I was like, she knows I'm 51 I've never danced and she's asked me if I want to do pointe someday. That means it must be possible. And the little girl in me, that six year old in me started to jump up and down and clap her hands and really yay, and that was that was the moment when I you know, that I said, this is it. This is it. This is what makes me happy.
Julie: Wow, I do remember that email. I remember that correspondence exchange.
Solange: I don’t remember your second question I mean, it was very, very professionally email, you know, because that was you do you ask us how I want to learn so you know what to offer all right? Or what my experiences and all that but I just remember that third question because it was somebody like what she's asking me, that means it must be possible or else she won't be asking.
And then Wow, the little girl inside started to jump up and down.
Julie: That's amazing.
Solange: So I think this is making the little girl in me happy, too. So we’re all happy.
Julie: You always want that little one to be happy, right?
Making Your Inner Child Happy, And Learning Life is Short
Solange: We forget about them. You know, I think we forget about the little girls or the boys, and it doesn't matter the little child, and we forget because we get into our busy adult minds. But then there is an age when you go back to it. And I think I’m starting at that age. That’s my age.
Julie: It's common, this age is common actually to come back around and be like, “Hey, wait a sec, I have spent the last 30 years living my life for other people, but I'm a person and I matter as much as those people.”
Solange: I think you stop … there is an age when you stop caring what other people think really not not saying you don't care. Just really stop caring. You stop, you stop caring about the pressure, there's pressure around for you to be perfect, you know a Superwoman and you know, in your job and your if you've got children and your job and you're a mother and whatever, everything you’ve got to be perfect all the time or ….
And there's a moment when you start to think, “Oh, wait a minute. Now, you know, I don't care what the other people wants, or what other people think What do I want? Because this is my life.” And the way you live your life every day, is the way you really live your life. It’s not doing one thing once in your life that counts. It’s what you do every day that makes your life. So if you do something you love every day. If you do something you're passionate about every day, it means you lead a passionate live. I believe it's not the things that you do once in a lifetime. I mean you might remember them. But the way you live your days is the way you live your life.
““I think you stop … there is an age when you stop caring what other people think really not not saying you don’t care. Just really stop caring. You stop, you stop caring about the pressure, there’s pressure around for you to be perfect, you know a Superwoman and you know, in your job and your if you’ve got children and your job and you’re a mother and whatever, everything you’ve got to be perfect all the time or ….
And there’s a moment when you start to think, “Oh, wait a minute. Now, you know, I don’t care what the other people wants, or what other people think What do I want? Because this is my life.” And the way you live your life every day, is the way you really live your life. It’s not doing one thing once in your life that counts. It’s what you do every day that makes your life. So if you do something you love every day. If you do something you’re passionate about every day, it means you lead a passionate live. I believe it’s not the things that you do once in a lifetime. I mean you might remember them. But the way you live your days is the way you live your life.””
Julie: Yeah, wow. So powerful your day is really, your life really is just made up of a bunch of days, right?
Solange: It is. And that you don't really I think you don't really stop thinking that way until you're older. Which is why most people my age say well, why did I know all this when I was 20 years younger.
Julie: That's right. Well, but they can tell you people can tell you that's right. I'm 20 years younger. I just turned 30 this year so I'm 20 years younger. They tell you all this stuff, right? But you can't know it and So you know it, you don't know it until you know it. That's the problem with this information.
Solange: I think when you're young, you really think that life carries on forever. Well, not forever, but it carries on you’ve got lots of time to do things. And then there's a moment in life when you realize today is what I have to be doing today. Today is important. And I don't give a whatever what other people think I should be doing, and I don't really care what other people think. And I don't mind I want to do things for myself.
Julie: That's, that's huge. I think there's, I think that perhaps the younger people will start to realize that with the whole COVID situation, in a sense, and I have sensed it, changing for people where they think I could always go to that restaurant down the street. It's always going to be there for me, I could always try ballet in the studio or I can always do these things. But now you can't, right, a lot of things actually are closed permanently. The world has changed permanently since March. And I think there's a lot more realization that the things you wanted to do if you didn't do them, you don't….. Hopefully you always have those opportunities. But I think that there's a realization happening with even younger people along the lines of what you're talking about?
Solange: It's Yes, I mean, you. You have that realization somewhat... Well, I had it since maybe since a long time ago, not just now that I'm 50 because it happens when you lose someone or you lose things or you're used to losing. You know, when you've gone through certain losses. You realize that time is different and life is different. And this has been a global loss. For most people, it has really meant you Don't you've lost, being near to people you love and even if you're near them, you can't touch them a whole demo, grab them all, you know, hug them the We're very huggies in Spain, we're very touchy-feely, I mean, yes, it's maybe it's not that common somewhere else. But here, it's very common to see someone and grab hold of them and two kisses. And we're all like, you know, touchy feely, it's that that's the way we are. And it's, it's changed a lot. People have so used to being maybe with a family and you can't go to see them because it's dangerous for them. The same everywhere really, I mean it’s probably the same over there. You can't go and see your other elder family because it's dangerous for them.
Julie: That's right. And they want to see you but you're you have to be careful, like they want to see you because it makes them happy. But you also have to be very, very careful.
Solange: And I know for lots of dancers, for instance, or people who used to perform…. because I did go on stage with a contemporary group, by the way, you know, it was it was a ballet school. So we would all know, everybody went on stage. We did the like, you know, the end of term performance and then was that Wow moment in my life I've never been on stage it was really wow. I'd actually think I talked better that day than anybody, you know, under pressure, it seems that under pressure was good for me.
But I know that for people in that business because I you see them and performance is the world for them. Not being to perform, os very hard for that for lots of people, generally performance, you know, arts performance, everyone. It doesn't matter if they play music or dance or whatever, performing is what they do. I mean, they rehearse to perform, right? They don't rehearse just to rehearse. They really they rehearse to perform. They want the public they need it, that that's what they that's what they like, and I know it's been very difficult for them.
Julie: Yeah, very difficult. Was it was your when your sort of perspective changed was that when you lost your mother?
Solange: Well, I have gone through losses before I had a difficult childhood because I mean my parents divorced and when we came to Spain divorce wasn't nobody was divorced didn't exist it was different existence thing. You were either…. I mean your father either died, or your mother had to be single, but people didn't divorce.
Julie: Interesting.
Solange: Because if there wasn't any democracy yet, it was still Franco. I mean, we It was 50 years ago, things have changed a lot in 50 years in Spain. So, it was difficult because we were alone and we moved a lot and it was really tough. And then well I had a stepfather, difficult stepfather she had one of those five year old relationship where it’s like “can’t live without you,” it was one of those toxic relationships as they say nowadays. But yes, the day, I think the when she died was one day really when she wasn't, she didn't die of any long illness it was one day she was here and then 24 hours later she wasn't. And that really did change my perspective.
But you forget, because I was 27 when that happened, you forget, because your daily life, you know, you carry on your day, you forget that life is short. You can't always be thinking Life is short with that intensity because you can't live. I mean life as a way of… you wake up and you know, you put your coffee and then you go to the bathroom and then you take your dog out and then you go to work, and life has a way of just being one day after another and then other things get in the way.
But then there's a moment when I think it's when you probably you know, you're past your midlife, you know, you're not going to live 50 … you know, I mean, I know I mean even if I lived until 50 I’d be 100. But it's you know, it's past the halfway or the halfway we believe we will have and that's when you have another type of realization that it doesn't matter. Because it's the days that matter.
Julie: Yeah. That halfway marker sounds ominous.
Solange: I know, people usually find that at 40. 40 seems to be the …. But 30, I know, when people sometimes, you know, 30 also makes difficulties. I don't know if you have any difficulty turning 30 but 30s also seems to be you know … decades tend to mark something.
Julie: Decades mark something well, and you think as a woman at age 30, right, your clock starts ticking, right. So you're like this, you know, this thing this show needs to get on the road, right? So you you start thinking those thoughts, they start creeping and you hear 30 and you're like, you know, you just hear those thoughts, but I think that 30 is it 30 is interesting. It's a big year. You're in your 20s and you think 30 is a long way off. And then all of a sudden 30 is here. And then you start to realize, well, if I thought 30 was far away, I think 40 is far away. But I used to think 30 was far away. So clearly 40 is not that far away, because 10 years ago…. right, it gets closer.
Solange: Every time, 10 years passes sooner, now it’s in a blink of an eye.
Julie: The thing I think that gets me the most is not so much my own age, but that the people around me, who I used to think look old, don't look old anymore. So like people who are in high school look like babies and people who are 30 and 40 look normal, and people who are 50 still look fabulous. And people who are 60 don't look that old.
Solange: I used to think when people were 50 were SO old!
Julie: But now I don't think 50 is that old? I don't honestly, I don't think 50 is that old and I don't think 60 is that old and I see people who are in their 60s and I get to see people dancing who are in these in these ages, and I'm Like, look how awesome you can be at 50. And look how awesome you can be at 60. And when I was a kid, I thought that was geriatric, you know. But now I see that it's like very vibrant. And in fact, the wiser you get if you're keeping your body up, it just seems like a magical time where you like you're saying, your mind becomes more free. And if you've been keeping yourself up, you can just like do what you want to do. And that seems super cool.
Solange: Socially, I think it's good thing, but things have changed a lot because you can do so many things that before was…. before it was everything was very rigid. You know, you went to school, you got married, you had kids and if you didn't go to school before you didn't go to school after, you know, it was everything was very menial. And now you can do so many things. Go to school at any age, you can dance at any age. You can nearly have children at any age. But I wouldn’t recommend that.
Julie: That's right. The clock has been extended, but you'd be real tired at it. be having a handful of kids?
Solange: I think so. I mean, I know people have them late later every you know, it's it's custom to have children later on. But I think it's difficult must be very difficult to keep up with young children when you're 50. Now I couldn't I couldn't imagine.
Julie: Yeah, I think that's it. I think the age, the age thing is, is just very interesting that you watch the passage of time and you look back and how quickly Time passes. And when you think about what you have to not show for the time but like, what did you do with the time that the day to day tasks really mattering? You hear about people who are successful and happy in their, their day to day is what matters to them, right? They find joy in the moments because that's all you have really if you only look forward to big moments, they come and go, you look forward to a big day and then all of a sudden is gone.
Solange: And it might not come. I mean, you just I mean, no, oh, you might have three or four big days in your life. You know, you can't really just have four days of life. Yeah, right. It's your daily life that matters. That's why I think having things you love doing, finding time for passions, discovering passions, you can always they're always things, something you can love. You might not know what it is, you might not have done it, but maybe things you left as a child gives you a cue to that what you love doing as a child. Maybe that gives you an idea of where your passions lie.
““ I mean, you just I mean, no, oh, you might have three or four big days in your life. You know, you can’t really just have four days of life. Yeah, right. It’s your daily life that matters. That’s why I think having things you love doing, finding time for passions, discovering passions, you can always they’re always things, something you can love. You might not know what it is, you might not have done it, but maybe things you left as a child gives you a cue to that what you love doing as a child. Maybe that gives you an idea of where your passions lie.””
Julie: That's interesting. I feel like we tend to want to deny that or think it's like silly or think it's like, you know, a silly childhood thing that couldn't possibly be the key to our happiness.
Solange: It is silly. It definitely is, but when you're 50 is really, you just don’t care, you enjoy being silly. It's like getting dirty. You know, it's like, go falling off the trees. It's lovely. Being silly is lovely.
Julie: That's funny, I suppose Why? Why do we have to be so serious anyways?
Solange: Because that's what you need. But I think I think that you do need to be serious maybe when you're 20 and 30 because you need to do things with your life. You’ve got to discover what you want to do, you got to study or you won't you need to have a job. I mean, life is serious. I mean, life is serious, really. But you can also have fun times and happy times, and finding times for those things. I mean, it's not a to say. I mean, I don't laugh all the time I’m doing ballet. It's sometimes really, I'm suffering! But that doesn't mean it's not a happy. It's a happy place. Ballet is my happy place. Even if it's hard, it's happy. It can be happy and hard. It doesn’t have to be easy.
Julie: Yeah and I think that if it's easy, it’s sometimes not happy.
Solange: Not everything that’s easy is happy, it's not that way not always that way. Sometimes sometimes when you have to fight for things and struggle for things and that's what really makes you value things as well you know..
Julie: Well I want to just ask you one last question I know we just kind of let the conversation go but you're you're I love I love hearing your your mindset on life and your and your philosophy. My last thing is just do you have.. so there's probably people in a similar boat right let's say they're 50 or let's say they're 30 or 70 who are saying you know I want to do this but I'm I'm whatever I'm holding me back or the world's holding you back. Do you have any last words for them? What what do you what do you have to say?
Solange: The world is not holding you back? We're socialized. We believe, we've heard things, we believe things should be a certain way you have to be of a certain... It doesn't matter if it's age, or gender, or color or whatever. Some things are supposed to be a certain way. But that's not what you really think or believe. You know, listen to what the rest of the world or you think the rest of the world thinks. You know, it’s your perspective on what the rest of the world believes. But that's not what you believe. You should just think what you want to do, and find a way to do it. You can learn to paint at any age. You can learn to sing at any age, really, you can learn to dance at any age, at any gender. I mean, it doesn't matter. I'm talking about age, but it could be gender, it could be color. It could be anything that we believe limits us. It doesn't. Why. Where’s the limit? There isn’t. I really think one should do is really do it because you want to do it now. Like your parents want you to dance, it's like your parents wanted you. And the only way you can find that out is just trying things. Because you might not know, I didn't know. I was quite passionate about it, you know, until I tried it and it wasn't something that I it was on my list. I didn't know. You try things. You discover things and if if that's not for you, you just try something else.
Julie: Amazing. I love your simple question of why where's the limit?
Solange: I mean, who limits you who tells you tells you you can't dance or you can't sing? You might not know how, but you could learn? Why not?
Julie: If they told you no, then then why?
Solange: If they tell you No, then you're in the wrong place? You have to find somewhere where, you'll find people that will say, Yes, you can. I believe you can. And if you're, if you're surrounded by people or if you find places where they say, No, you can't. You're not the one that's wrong there. It's the people that surround you that are the ones that should change, you'd have to find somewhere else.
Julie: So much freedom, so much power in that sentiment.
Solange: You have to find somewhat some people that support you or a place that supports you. And if you really want to do something and everyone around you're saying, No, you're not at fault. It's not you know, it's them that have to change No, you have you might, you might have to change your surroundings. This happens to maybe men that want to dance en point for instance, it's terribly difficult. Then you have a great companies like the Trockadero, that’s the funniest thing, I mean the best, and they really know how to dance and it’s “wow” what they do. It's amazing.
““You have to find somewhat some people that support you or a place that supports you. And if you really want to do something and everyone around you’re saying, No, you’re not at fault. It’s not you, no, it’s them that have to change.””
But for all the ones that have tried to or wanted to, they don't have maybe the space to do it. And I think online has helped a lot in that because you can find a niche you can find your people. They might not be around you. You might be living in a small place a small town where you don't have a studio maybe, not every place has a studio, or not every studio might be open to everyone going in but online, online opens a lot of possibilities.
Julie: Yep, your people can be anywhere and they don't have to be that many for it to be a thing, right? There don't have to be that many worldwide for you to make it into a thing.
Solange: And there's something very important there's always someone older than you darker than you, which has more difficulties than you. And you don't know that you think you're unique, and you're not. That’s something else. You know, knee joints worse, knee joints or flatter feet or something. There's always something or someone who has had many more difficulties in life trying to dance. And they're doing it.
“And there’s something very important there’s always someone older than you darker than you, which has more difficulties than you. And you don’t know that you think you’re unique, and you’re not. That’s something else. You know, knee joints worse, knee joints or flatter feet or something. There’s always something or someone who has had many more difficulties in life trying to dance. And they’re doing it.”
Julie: There's always someone who would want to trade places with you.
Solange: Yeah.
Julie: Always.
Solange: Well, you have so much wisdom and you always bring so much joy to class and I could probably sit here way past your bedtime and just …
Solange: You know I’m wearing these red flowers. Like, no one's gonna recognize me. This is not me.
Julie: But it’s the you that I know. It's the you that I know. Right? This is the you that I see. I haven't, you know, we meet in a ballet context, right? To me, this is you!
Solange: This is my dressed up me because I think that dressing up makes a lot. Dressing up for the part makes a lot of the feel of things.
Julie: Then you show us a flower in the piece, yeah.
Solange: And it needs to just show it off.
Julie: It adds to the presence that we were talking about in the beginning.
Solange: I think you’re the best thing that could have happened to me really, I'm enjoying myself a lot and I really think that this is the best thing that you could… you’re the best thing you could have happened to me.
Julie: You're very sweet. Thank you.
Solange: And lockdown has done a lot for this. So I mean, it is difficult to talk about silver linings when things go wrong because it's doesn't sound…. and I don't think you have to be happy all the time. I don't believe that, but sometimes things are opportunities. This change of life. Well, it's given me the opportunity to find a group of adult dancers starting from scratch.
Julie: That's right.
Solange: Well, not all of them. I mean, I mean, but not all of them, but some of them are just like me. And it's, it's, it's been good. I might not have found you otherwise.
Julie: Yeah, I would have been too busy running a studio otherwise.
Solange: You had a studio, you did! I mean, you did you when you did have one, a physical one. You wouldn't have time to do all these online classes.
Julie: That's right, right. I'd be there. I'd be there busy with that. The hardships are real, but the opportunities are just as real.
Solange: Yeah. Opportunities are there, but you have to see them. They might not be the opportunity that you'd want. You know, it's might not be what you want. But it gives you another way of you have to pop on the card.
Julie: Well, yeah, I think if even if it's not exactly what you imagined, like when I think about what I imagined for Broche Ballet, I wanted to be able to help adults who want to dance, learn how to dance. That was my main goal. Right? Obviously, I started that with my Denver studios. But even though I lost the Denver studios, it doesn't mean I'm not still working towards that goal, right. And that goal is still happening. It's just different than it was before. It's not like, you know, that loss, obviously, is very sad and intense. But it's not like the it's not like the vision is gone. It's not like the spirit is gone. It's not like any of that has ended. It's just, it's just different.
Solange: I mean, your spirit is the same, your goal is the same goal. Yeah, everything is in a different way. Because life is different. The world has changed. That's right. Life it's different. The world has changed. I mean, it's, it's not a group setting, but it is a group setting but it's virtual. It's not physical and you have to be, you probably have to change a lot your way of teaching.
Julie: Yep.
Solange: Learn how to teach…
Julie: Like move your foot there. No, not there. Move it there. No, no, not there. Move it. There. We
Solange: Push it, no not that way!
Julie: So you learn but if you don't…. I think if you have a rigid belief about what your life is going to look like, it's going to be really, really upsetting when it changes. And I think it's important to be flexible and say like, you know, the world changed and this isn't what I had envisioned, but it's in some ways better in some ways different in some ways worse, but ultimately, it is still moving forward in a new world in a new way. And I think that there's a lot of power when you figure out that just because the world threw you a curveball doesn't mean that you're no longer playing the game. It just means that you got to go with it.
Solange: It's a different game. That's a card you have that's the cards you have… you’re dealt some cards, you have to do whatever you can with them.
Julie: And everyone got them.
Solange: Those are very wise words from a 30 year old, that's very wise by the way, yes. Yes, wise woman.
Julie: I gotta get ahead of the game here with the wisdom right while the energy is still there, you know, gotta you know try to.. speed the wisdom along.
Solange: I think flexibility, flexibility is a must. The more rigid we are in our in everything really in our thoughts and how we think life should go, the worse it is for us because you get stuck on an idea which isn’t real. It's like my perfect partner… my perfect life.. my perfect house.. my perfect… No, that's not real. You have to be flexible.
“I think flexibility, flexibility is a must. The more rigid we are in our in everything really in our thoughts and how we think life should go, the worse it is for us because you get stuck on an idea which isn’t real. It’s like my perfect partner… my perfect life.. my perfect house.. my perfect… No, that’s not real. You have to be flexible.”
Solange: Your goal is the same goal. You're helping you're helping adult dancers dance. It’s different way of doing it this way but knows what will happen in 20 years. You don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow. I mean, really? What can happen and trying to get I don't know.
Julie: That's right. Yeah. And I think with with so many dancers who I help, they have a very rigid goal of what ballet looks like. And as you're saying, like as it should be, or as it you know…. I can't do it because I don't have perfect turnout. I'm like, I don't care. It doesn't matter. You're still doing it. If your goal with doing it was to have perfect turnout, then sure you can't do it because that's your goal and you don't and it's hard to get it but if your goal was to dance and your goal was to express yourself, and your goal was to learn this art form and to learn the details and to learn the language, then perfect turnout is not part of that. It's not. It was nowhere on that list, right? You will work towards it, but it's not on that list. And you have to think about what your bigger goals are, what your bigger vision is, because along the way, it's never going to be what you think it should be. And it never feels like it never feels like any of those things on the list and the day to day tasks, right. Your grand vision never feels like what it actually is to execute on the day to day basis.
Solange: I think that's difficult though in ballet, because that is maybe when you start learning, at least all the people I know who started learning ballet as a child, ballet is very perfectionist. So it's really difficult to just say, No, I don't care. I want to enjoy myself.
Julie: Yep. And you're allowed to enjoy yourself before you're perfect. Yes, that's a hard part for people to accept that you're not…
Solange: Allowing yourself a lot. I mean, that's one of the things you learn in life probably when you're you know….. perfectionist doesn't really get you anywhere.
Julie: No
Solange: No it doesn't make you better; you'll never be better. When you're when you're perfectionist, you’ll never be better. You know you can always be better right? It doesn't get you anywhere.
Julie: You’re never actually happy.
Solange: It prevents you from enjoying and feeling the moment.
Julie: Right because you're always stressing about not being perfect.
Solange: You're always struggling up to be no it's not good enough it's not good enough, it's not good enough. I'm not the feeling you're not good enough in is the probably one of the worst … it just makes you unhappy. You have to start from the point that whatever you are, however you are, you're good enough.
“When you’re perfectionist] You’re always struggling up to be no it’s not good enough it’s not good enough, it’s not good enough. I’m not the feeling you’re not good enough in is the probably one of the worst … it just makes you unhappy. You have to start from the point that whatever you are, however you are, you’re good enough. ”
Julie: That's right.
Solange: That's, that's the hardest. What's one of the hardest lessons I think in life, at least has been for me, because I've been… I am a I still am quite a perfectionist. I'm happy but it's a way of controlling life maybe, you know, it's the way you have mentally controlling your life, the life around you.
Julie: But it can't, it can't be controlled really. As we know, for the last few months and as you know, for many of the challenges of your youth.
Solange: No but this is pandemic, I think has made a change a dent in lots of people. It's made you change your vision, you can't control it. And it's for everyone. It's not a country. It's not a person it's everyone and say, No, you can't control life. Life is uncontrollable, you think you can control it, and you can't
Julie: Right. I think with I think with on the good enough topic, I think it took me a really … and I'm still working on it. But I think I was always afraid to lose the idea that I wasn't good enough because I thought that's where my motivation to be better came from. I thought that my motivation to drive and work and be really, really studious and work really, really hard…. I thought it came from this idea that I wasn't good enough. And so I thought if I accepted that I was good enough that I would become complacent and not work towards towards my goals and not keep pushing myself. I thought I was pushing myself because of that, but really that's not really where it comes from, or where it needs to come from, right, it can come from just like a desire to learn and an interest and a curiosity and fascination. It doesn't have to come from like a negative place.
Solange: It doesn’t have to be fear. Fear can motivate you. And feeling you're not good enough is really fear. Yeah, it's fear that you're not good enough, that you have to do more, you have to show yourself in a certain way, you have to work harder, be brighter, have a better voice, work harder, you know, whatever…. That comes from fear. Then there's, you can work from a place of fear, or you can work from a place maybe of abundance, saying, “Well, I have what I have. I do what I do. Maybe I can enjoy myself. Maybe I can learn.” Even if you don't enjoy yourself. I mean because really, I think don't believe in the cultural, you know, always being happy and everything is ha ha. That's not life, really it isn't. Life is hard. Life is a just one problem after another problem after another problem after another problem, one problem is solved, you have another problem. Life is problems problems. But if you come from a place of fear, the only thing you can do is try and work in a place of fear. You're always afraid you're not doing it's enough. It's never good enough. You always have to do a little bit more. That's not good enough. You're not… you don't breathe.
When you come from a place of not giving a heck, really. Things are different. It doesn't matter if you make a mistake, you make a mistake, you're learning. That's good. If you come from a place of fear and you make a mistake, that's the worst thing that can happen to you better not get out from home, you know stay in bed for two days, don't go out. And I think it's a it's a change.
Julie: And it really doesn't….. It really, I've found doesn't end in less hard work coming from the place of abundance versus fear, as you put it. Tt actually works better, right? Because you're willing to make mistakes and mistakes are truly how you learn. How else are you going to learn if you don't try it and do it wrong, and then be like, “okay, so I guess that's why you don't do it that way.” Because you can only really learn that from trying it. As you said before, you have to try things to even know if you like them, right? So how can you know without making a few mistakes, but if you're so afraid of mistakes, you'll never take the risks you need to actually improve.
Solange: Fear makes you do things that in a way that you'll probably all you think you're sure you're going to get them right because you can't you know…. and then you probably do you mean you work a lot and you can do better but it’ll never be good enough. Because you're not you're not you're not just letting yourself and then when you fail, you don't really fail, you just make a mistake and then really no one cares the world doesn't fall down. You really realize and say, well no one really cares if you’re not perfect. No one even thought I had to be perfect. It's not to be perfect. No one thought I had to be perfect. No one ever thought Oh, “Solange has to be perfect she's not being perfect what's wrong with her?” No!
“You really realize and say, well no one really cares if you’re not perfect. No one even thought I had to be perfect. It’s not to be perfect. No one thought I had to be perfect. No one ever thought Oh, “Solange has to be perfect she’s not being perfect what’s wrong with her?” No!”
Julie: They never even thought twice about you to be honest. I mean, that's just…
Solange: No! They don't they say, oh, there she goes…. but no, everyone's got their own thinking. How much time do you spend thinking about someone? Nothing. You meet someone you, you see someone you don't even think about that person that person saying “Oh, she's looked at me twice. She's thinking about…” No, she's not. No one's thinking about her.
Julie: Nobody. No, and I think I think that that idea was, you know, a very interestingly from something that I've learned over this few months of losing the studios but also then continuing on with the studio, where I think that that is when I start started to really solidify this thought which was that, really the thing that I feared the most was losing the studios and it happened and nothing…. I mean, we're fine. We're fine. All of it's fine
Solange: You’re sad. It's no, you're sad. It's a loss. It's been difficult. You've had to say goodbye to people who you'd worked with, I mean, I'm sure you'd work with a long time they were, they were like family and it's, it's a loss. And you have to, you know, you have to process it. It's a loss. It's like losing someone you love. Because you did love it. It's a part of you. That's it. You've grown some other way.
Julie: Right? And then you find that life really does go on like, it really does.
Solange: Right, you haven’t died. You could have a T shirt: “I haven't died.” I mean, have I died? No.
Julie: Yeah. And I think that that adds to a little bit of a sense of fearlessness and power, where you can see that things can change in really, really drastic ways and yet you're still fine. And I think even when you do lose people it's super sad and it's a lot and it's horrible, but you always learn lessons from it. And those lessons are like their final gift to you, like you learn a final gift from your mother, you know, you learn a final gift from these people who died and obviously you don't want to lose them and all of that, but there’s always something that you can get from that.
Solange: You grow. That's the way you grow with losses, with hardships with problems with struggles. That's the way you grow. You can't grow as a person. I mean, you can't grow if nothing happens to you. You just can't grow. That's why some people you know, you meet people around and say they've never grown up. But hardships, problems, losses, all that makes you grow, makes you resilient. Makes you be you know, you're being able to face challenges in a different way because you've learned that you can face them. You can grow out of them, and something good can come from them.
“You grow. That’s the way you grow with losses, with hardships with problems with struggles. That’s the way you grow. You can’t grow as a person. I mean, you can’t grow if nothing happens to you. You just can’t grow. That’s why some people you know, you meet people around and say they’ve never grown up. But hardships, problems, losses, all that makes you grow, makes you resilient. Makes you be you know, you’re being able to face challenges in a different way because you’ve learned that you can face them. You can grow out of them, and something good can come from them. ”
I mean, you've got a wonderful online studio now. I don't know that many like yours. Really? I haven't…. you know, when you check for online, when when I checked it was the first that came up when you Google? Yeah, you know, Google knows everything. So…
If there were many of of them, they would come up with Google.. You've picked up the pieces and done something different and might not be better and it might not be worse. And you know, it's different, right? Different
Julie: It's different I think that you gain so much from from these life lessons. And I think ultimately it makes your life richer, because you you're it's as if these [hands about 5 inches apart] are the amount of emotions you've experienced, now you have this [hands wider apart] to work with, you know, you have expanded your worldview. You have expanded everything about it. And I think that that's just a fascinating part of life and what makes it really what really what it becomes… what you become as an adult, what you grow into is really just made up of collection of the things that you've made it through and then learn that you could do because of it.
Solange: And I also believe that you can't… I mean, like I say, I don't believe in the always happy or funny, always smiley.. I really believe that to be really happy, to know what happiness is you have to know what sadness is. I mean there’s the whole spectrum of things. You can't just have the good things: good emotions the happy the light, no… it's like the two sides of the same coin. You have lots of coins, but you have two sides. You can't be brave if you don't know if you haven't felt you know, you haven't been afraid. You don't know what one thing is. You don't know what happiness is if you don't know what sadness is. So you need both things, and you get them from living.
Julie: Life is sure to make sure you have both!
Solange: Well It should be. I mean, some people are very coddled, maybe, or some people have…. I mean, some people do have terrible lives. I had a difficult childhood, but from 27 years onwards, I mean, my second half life hasn't been really that difficult, but I don't remember its hardships as being something terrible, you know, damaging. I've had very good moments. I mean, I've had a difficult childhood, but I've had great moments as well.
Julie: Yeah. Right. Well, it sounds like that's where you really got your love of the arts from that period of time.
Solange: Yeah, my mother, my mother obviously, I love them. And I also do some I do collages which are on my walls [points the camera at her wall]. You know, I try and find some time to do things like that. Yes. My love of the arts came from her.
Julie: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah That's amazing. I mean your your your story is fascinating and what you what you've been through has obviously made you who you are and and giving you this confidence and freedom and while maybe introverted have such a presence and, and the wisdom,
Solange: You can be introverted and be social, you know, sometimes some people think that you have to be you're introverted, you're shy, that two different things. I mean, I don't need external I don't need to be with people all the time. And if and if I'm a if I'm with people a lot for a long time I get, you know, I sort of tire out like my battery's way down and I need a lot of timings inside with myself and my house and my dog. My silence, and my ballet is good for me for that.
I know some people really need to be out with people all the time. They need a lot of stimulus. Yeah. And I don't. I have it inside. That's, that's a bit…. but I'm very social. I learned since I was small, that I was very social.
Julie: But you also need your me time.
Solange: Yeah. A lot of time a lot of me time. With my things, myself, and my circumstances. Well, my dog. Yes, my dog [points camera at her dog]
Julie: Oh, there's the dog.
Solange: No. She's called Glinka. He got was a Russian composer. Julie: Well, this was such a fun conversation. I thank you so much for your time and for imparting all of this wonderful wisdom to our listeners, I hope. I don't know who will listen to this and not be inspired by your wonderful words because you're, you just have such an energy and a joy and a passion.
Solange: Thank you, Julie. Really, I'm so glad I met you, that I met all of you. I'm really so happy, really, ballet is my happy place and I I'm…. obviously you know, I appreciate my local studio, EBD Dance Academy. They've done a lot for me, but I'm so happy to have met you really very happy.
Julie: I'm very happy to have met you as well. You're, you're a lot of fun to have in the studio.
Solange: It's nice that you're part of my journey and I'm part of yours.
Julie: Yeah. Yep. It's fun. It's fun to be on the same track for a little while.
Solange: Yeah, it is. Lovely.
Julie: Well, thank you so much.
Solange:Thank you for Yes, definitely has been very fun. Thank you very much. Very fun. Thank you. Thank you.
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