Broche Banter #23 -- Lucy
Today on the show, I chat with Lucy all the way from Belgium.
We talk about her experience moving all over as a child, parallels between how we learn 2nd languages and how we learn ballet, and how she walked into her first ballet class just 2 years ago! Just as much as she used to love the flow state of surfing as a teenager off the coast in Morocco, she loves ballet for the magic of quieting her internal chatter.
Enjoy!
Before we get to the show, let’s take our Broche Bite!
On this segment, we’ll talk about bite-size ballet tidbits to give you something to chew on while you listen.
Today, I’ll give you a quick little visual for your core. Instead of thinking “belly button to spine,” which is a commonly used phrase, consider thinking about trying to pull your belly button diagonally up and back.
First, visualize the little spot right between your shoulder blades where the hooks of a woman’s bra might sit. Then, think about trying to pull your belly button up to that spot. Sometimes our shoulders think they’re helpful and float up to our ears, so make sure to keep those pulling down and nestling over that spot that we’re pulling our belly button up to.
Is that a lot of work? Good! It should be. Now, hold that every time you’re in ballet class. You can use it walking around town or standing in line, too, and your back should have less pain, and an added bonus, people might come up and ask if you’re a dancer!
Now, onto the show!
A little about moving all over Europe!
Julie: Lucy, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you and to have a chance to meet you today.
Lucy: I know me too. I've been watching all of the Broche Banter episodes, so I was really excited to get to talk as well.
Julie: Very exciting. And so where are you? Where are you calling me from today?
Lucy: So I'm in Antwerp in Belgium. All the way in Europe
Julie: Yeah! All the way on the other side of the ocean. So it's evening there for you?
Lucy: Yeah, it's almost seven o'clock in the evening.
Julie: Right. It's almost 11 o'clock in the morning here.
Lucy: Oh gosh. This is quite different.
Julie: Quite different. So, Have you always been Belgium?
Lucy: No, I'm originally from the UK. And but my family moved around a lot. So I did my teenager years in Tenerife. It's an island off the coast of Morocco. It's Spanish. And then I studied in Amsterdam, and then now I'm here.
Julie: Wow, is your family in Belgium as well, or are you there all by yourself?
Lucy: I'm here with my boyfriend. And yeah, my family, my dad lives elsewhere. And my mom, she lives in the UK.
Julie: Wow. That's quite the … you’ve been so many places.
Lucy: Yes. quite hectic. It's not a simple story. If somebody asks, Where are you from? I'm like, do you have five minutes?
Julie: Let me tell you :) Do you speak any of these other languages of the places you've lived?
Lucy: Yes. So in both Holland and Belgium, they speak Dutch and it's taken me a long time to learn it. I'm still getting the confidence to actually speak the language. It's quite difficult. But I'm getting there after quite a long time. And I could also speak Spanish when I lived there, but it was, it's been a long time, so we'd have to see if I needed to speak a conversation.
Julie: And then of course, you speak a little bit of French from ballet.
Lucy: Yeah. I don't know how far I'd get me in France, though.
Julie: Something about the body parts. That's mostly what we know.
Ballet dreams
Julie: Okay, so when did ballet come into the picture throughout all of this?
Lucy: I mean, I've always wanted to dance ballet like, but it's just never really happened and never worked out. And then when I was a teenager, I wasn't interested in it because I was living on an island and I would go surfing instead of doing ballet.
But then when I moved to a cold country, and I sat indoors, I found YouTube because like, I think this was the time that YouTube was starting to get more popular. And I've watched loads of dance videos, and thought I wish I could do that, but I really thought I missed the boat like I thought, you know I’m too old and can't do it now and thought you’re supposed to be still in school and then you start.
And then about two years ago now I saw this giant poster and it said, “Ballet for adults, no experience needed.” And I was like, Oh, it's a sign! And so that's when ballet really came into the picture was about two years ago.
Julie: Wow. So you've really been dreaming about it. I mean, other than your teenage years for most of your life, and you only really just recently started.
Lucy: Yeah, yeah, it's, I can't stop either. It's great.
Julie: Was that in Belgium?
Lucy: Yes. Yeah. I've been living here now for, I think four years. So it was two years after living here.
Julie: Are the classes in English or do you have to …
Lucy: It's a mixture. So it depends on who's in the class. So if it's mostly Dutch speakers, then the teacher would speak in Dutch and then if it's a mixture of different international people, then it will be primarily in English.
Julie: Can you understand it pretty well, if it's Dutch, or is it pretty hard to take class in that language?
Lucy: Yeah. And it helps me so much with my Dutch. I mean, I can tell people to stand up straight and point their feet if I need to.
Julie: That's right. I think I have taken some classes from a Spanish ballet company, they teach in Spanish, right? And so I know like, you know, strong arms, and left side. I don’t know “right” because they never say right side, they always say left side, right, because you always we turn to the other side.
Lucy: So yeah, but doing things like sports, and whatever I find is a really good way to kind of integrate into wherever you're living and get to know people and their language. And …
Julie: So, um, okay, so you started ballet in Belgium was an adult only class that you started in?
Lucy: Mm hmm. Yeah, it was all for adults. So like when I saw the sign, I was a little bit apprehensive because I don't know I think ballet is quite an intimidating of a sport to get into. And I thought, is it really for beginners? Or is it going to be one of those classes where people used to do it when they were younger until they were about 18. And then they left for so many years and went back.
And that is part of the audience. But a lot of the audience actually is people like me who have never done it before. And so that was, that was really nice. And when I stepped into the studio, I immediately felt like, “I can do this,” like, “I’ve got this!”
Julie: That's awesome. Have you done any kind of dance before or was really surfing kind of the only physical activity that you have done in the past?
Lucy: And when I was really small, like their stories that I did dance classes, but I don't really remember. And then when I was about 11, I tried dancing again, but it didn't last very long, because the goals were really mean. And so I didn't want to stay there. I didn't feel confident to go there anymore. So I stopped so yeah, no, I have not really done anything dance wise other than now.
Julie: Yeah, 11’s a rough age no matter what you're doing.
Lucy: Girls can get… well children can be mean.
Julie: Yeah, they haven't learned yet. How to how to work with each other in life.
Lucy: Yeah.
Julie: Okay, so what do you so so you've been doing it for two years? Are you still doing it now that you know COVID is happening and the world is different? Or are you on a little bit of a break right now?
Lucy: Well, at the beginning of the whole quarantine period, I thought, it's only going to be two weeks, I'm going to take my time and I'm going to work on like the areas like of flexibility and turnout and things like this, ready to go back. But then it kept getting extended and extended, and then the motivation kind of dropped. Because it's not so easy to dance my apartment, we have like lots of big furniture so I could keep bumping into things and it's quite difficult. And yeah, and a couple of things have changed. So actually I'm going to be starting again, as of tomorrow, I'm going to try out different schools. And just to get back in the studio, and I'm so excited, I can't tell you. Yeah, dancing at home has been a real challenge.
Julie: Yeah, it's a it's a very different kind of practice than dancing in the studio, that's for sure.
Lucy: Yeah. Yeah.
Julie: It's very internal. It's very meditative. It's not as outward.
Lucy: Yeah. So I've been trying to, like maintain, like I say, flexibility and things. Because I think when you're at home and you don't have the kind of drive that the studio gives you, it's quite easy to maintain. Whereas doing a barre class, for example, every day, I find it hard, being at home, and actually doing it to my full potential. Because I find it's a lot more inspiring when you're around other people and when you're in a space that is designed for ballet, right?
Julie: Right. It's a whole different thing.
What are your goals?
Julie: So you’ve been doing it for about two years, since since now, what what kinds of things are you working on in class? What are your goals? What are you working on?
Lucy: What am I working on? Balance and stability is really a big thing for me. I'm very unstable. As soon as I go on my toes, it's just forget about it. And yeah, and I just enjoy it. You know, I don't really set specific goals. For me, my ultimate goal is for it just to kind of come easily, you know, where you can those moments where you can just let go and just dance those, of course, the best moments. And so that's what I'm always kind of striving to achieve.
“For me, my ultimate goal is for it just to kind of come easily, you know, those moments where you can just let go and just dance. Those, of course, are the best moments. And so that’s what I’m always kind of striving to achieve.”
Julie: Did you find that in surfing? Did you get that that sort of like flow state when you were doing that more regularly?
Lucy: Yeah, that was amazing because as soon as you get on a wave, you can't think about anything else. And you're just completely and utterly in the moment and I find that the same with ballet. And I think that's why it's so addictive for so many people. Because it's, I think one of the only things I found where I'm truly thoughtless, you know, it's just you and that moment and that's all that matters.
“I think [ballet] is one of the only things I found where I’m truly thoughtless, you know, it’s just you and that moment and that’s all that matters.”
Julie: Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. Isn't it? The ability to to go inwards and be with your body with your body, right? Be with your body, be with the music.
Lucy: Yeah, like a lot of people. I mean, I used to go to the gym and a lot of people do that to escape, but I never really felt like I left my thoughts behind. They felt that they were always with me. But as soon as I walked through the doors of the studio, that's it. I'm there. And that's all that matters. Like even if I had the worst day, it turns out to be the best day.
Julie: Yeah, that's right.
What is ballet in Belgium like?
Julie: So um, this might be a hard question to answer but what's class what is class like there? What is what's the studio like? What are the people like what are people wearing? What kinds of people are there what talk to me about the the culture of ballet in Belgium?
Lucy: Oh, it's amazing. There's so many different people. Because Yeah, so when I first arrived, I saw that everybody was wearing a leotard and a skirt and everything. And I was just in my sports outfit, and I thought I'm gonna look like a fool! But then everybody just started speaking so openly with me. And it's such a nice atmosphere. I've never known anything like it. Like six months into dancing, we already did a show and that's when I really got to know the community here. And it's crazy because you're in the studio and you're all dancing, and you all have the same goal. But then when you start speaking to these people, you realize they have the most diverse lives. They're all doing the most incredible things outside of the dance school. You don't know that until you start speaking to them. But the backgrounds I find that just so inspiring, I find it incredible that I'm in a room with such different women. It's great.
“You’re in the studio and you’re all dancing, and you all have the same goal. But then when you start speaking to these people, you realize they have the most diverse lives. They’re all doing the most incredible things outside of the dance school. You don’t know that until you start speaking to them. But the backgrounds I find that just so inspiring, I find it incredible that I’m in a room with such different women. It’s great.”
Julie: Why do you think ballet attracts such interesting people? Or are these people everywhere? And we just never tried to talk to them. What do you think?
Lucy: Could be the latter. Because, of course, on a day to day you don't speak to random people, you're often just in your your bubble. And but I think, based on the people that I've met, they're all quite driven people or they're people who are quite goal oriented. And I think that that kind of goes hand in hand with ballet. They don't necessarily need to go for some high adrenaline activity after work, or in their weekend. They just want some relaxation and fun.
Julie: Yeah. Fascinating. That I think there's so many so many interesting people even just that I've met through this podcast. And you know, as you mentioned, you’ve listened to the episodes, everyone's story is just so fascinating. And, you know, the things that people go through to get to where they are now is just incredible. No matter who you are. Everyone's got their own story and their own experience in life.
Lucy: I find that with with the podcast series, you know, every week I'm like, “Oh, This was my favorite episode, it was so relatable!” Or “Oh, that was so interesting!” And then a new one comes out, and then you get to hear a new story. And again, you're like, “Oh, that was so interesting.” You know, because everybody just has their story. And it's, I find it really this online adult ballet community really great. Because you can find something in common with somebody completely on the other side of the world to you, it's, and you kind of have very similar experiences. I find that fascinating.
“I find it really this online adult ballet community really great. Because you can find something in common with somebody completely on the other side of the world to you, it’s, and you kind of have very similar experiences. I find that fascinating.”
Julie: So you lived in many different cultures, right? Because you've lived in a few different countries and with different languages and all of that, and how, how has that experience kind of shaped you and who you are, whether inside the studio or out?
Lucy: I think when you move around a lot, like a lot of your conditionings break. You know, so when you grow up in the same place, you kind of have the way that you do things in the way that everybody around you does things whereas when you move you're kind of forced into To a moment where you kind of have to forget what you know and just adapt to where you are and understand the people around you. And yeah.
Julie: Well, that's good training for 2020.
Lucy: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you have to be able to adapt if you're going to move around, or if you're going to be in quarantine, you've got to be able to adapt.
Julie: That’s right. You seem in in pretty good spirits. Has this time been challenging for you? How, how have you kind of gone through this period of time in the last six or so months?
Lucy: Yeah, there's definitely been moments where you kind of get confronted with the situation and how the whole world has changed. And yeah, it's quite difficult but where I am at the minute everything starting to slowly get back to normal. And for example, like, so I'm a teacher, and we're able to go back into school and whilst it's different, and it's so nice to be face to face with the students rather than online. And if you know you want to go out, there's not all of these restrictions keeping you to like a certain radius where you're allowed to go. And so that helps. But during the quarantine, there was that period. I think everybody went through it where you could completely reset and reassess everything. And you know what you're doing with your life. And that was nice, but then it just went on for a bit too long.
Julie: Yeah, I think April was a hard month for the world.
Lucy: Yeah. But there's also a sense of comfort in that everybody's going through it. Because Yeah, it's not like it's just a single group of people that are having to deal with it. It's everybody's been affected in one way or another.
Julie: Yeah. Did you? What did you come to conclude about your life and where you're at in this period of time have you made big changes in your in your in your goals? And your thoughts and kind of who you want to become?
Lucy: I just need to slow down, I need to relax. I think I'm always going 100 miles an hour. And I really feel it now that I'm getting back to work. And, you know, there's all of these things on my agenda. I feel like I'm not sleeping, I've gone back into that sort of go-go-go mode, which I was able to switch off for a little while. And so it's a case of finding a balance between between the two doing absolutely nothing and then doing absolutely everything.
Julie: Yeah, well, balance is so hard to find in, as you mentioned in ballet, but in life as well.
Lucy: Yeah, I really struggle with it.
On being a teacher, and also learning ballet
Julie: So how has the experience been for you as a teacher? I mean, obviously, as adults, sometimes we stop learning as adults, right? Some sometimes we adults just are in the role of teaching and not always in the role of students but you're in both right? You're in the role of a student as a dancer very strongly, and also as a teacher, what's that experience like for you?
Lucy: That's been like one of the most lovely things about it, because when I first started, I was able to share it with my students. And then they were, of course, super excited because I was doing something that maybe they could do that they could teach me, or something that I might “Look what I learned!” and then they were really enthusiastic to know what I was doing in my own life. I think learning never really stops. I think that you know, no matter what it is, whether it's ballet or cooking or whatever, you're always learning something new. And I think that's what keeps life a little bit exciting.
“I think learning never really stops. I think that you know, no matter what it is, whether it’s ballet or cooking or whatever, you’re always learning something new. And I think that’s what keeps it a little bit exciting.”
Julie: What, what age and what kinds of things do you teach?
Lucy: So up till now, I was teaching fifth grade. And as of this year, I'm teaching Middle School. So I'm teaching language acquisition for non speakers of English.
Julie: Fascinating! What is the language acquisition? Is it like learning the language? Or is it like if they're having challenges learning it, that you're helping them through those challenges?
Lucy: Well, because I work in an international school, the language of instruction generally is English. But then of course, we get people coming in whose mother tongue is not English. And so just to help them with the process of integrating into the school system, and instead of taking like a language and literature class, for example, they'll come to me and we'll do stuff with purpose, but it's kind of more language based just to make sure that over the next year or so they can go into the main classroom and feel like they're not chasing something that they're not ready for.
Julie: What kind of what kind of training did you did you get for that kind of work? What do you have to learn? What do you have to know and be able to accomplish to help someone with that kind of a process?
Lucy: Well, I actually studied English language and education. So I learned kind of the development of language and all the theories behind what goes on when you're learning a language or what methodologies are supposedly the best kind of methodologies. And yeah, so I spent four years doing that in Holland. And so all my internships were in, in schools that, of course, their native language was not English. And so I got kind of this was all I know actually, we're teaching is being in an international environment. You know, that It's not an English environment.
Julie: Do we learn ballet the same way we learn the language?
Lucy: In a way, maybe because my approach is kind of, you just immerse yourself in the language, you know, and you use what you know, to help you to develop. And then when you're doing ballet, for me personally, I just like to copy and try and then go back and think about how it really needs to be done. And I think that's kind of similar from the way that I approach teaching. It's just let's just go with it and see what happens.
Julie: Right, what's the worst that could happen?
Lucy: Yeah, but it's like, you know, if you're teaching a child language, there's so much trial and error and you just do it. You just learn the language through through using it and through experimenting with it. And it's like with ballet I find… okay, it’s a lot more structured, of course, but when you're doing ballet I find I just like to immerse myself in it and not think too much and just try.
Julie: There's so much of these concepts that are interesting to think about with how kids learn ballet versus how adults learn ballet and how kids learn language versus how adults learn language. Do you have any thoughts on those kinds of like differences?
Lucy: I remember you were talking about like how children learn by doing you know, they'll watch and they don't really put too much thought into it whereas adults like to over theorize everything. And that's been my experience as well with dancing is I get a little bit frustrated when there's too much explanation because I just want to go ahead and just try and give it a go and then theorize everything. And yes, I think it varies from person to person, just what they feel most comfortable doing?
Julie: Yeah, I think that trying it is is always a part of it. There's always a fear of looking a little silly when you're trying it, which I think is what holds a lot of adults back. They want to know how to do it perfectly before they even give it a go. But I think ultimately, like you said …. like use the word experimenting, which I think is a really important word to think about when you're using a language or learning ballet because you have to just like, just check it out and see how it would work in this environment like, “Well, what would happen if I use my left foot there? Oh, it doesn't actually work. I guess that's why I would use my right foot.” But you won't learn that until you like give it a try.
Lucy: Yeah, I think because, you know, I've had certain things explained. And it's not until like I try it again and again and again that the penny drops. And then I'm like, “Ah, that's what she's been talking about this whole time.” And I just think that just by keep going and being confident in yourself, just trying, and it always works out in the end. And I noticed when you get newcomers to the class, or people who are maybe a bit shy, they move to the back. They never want to be at the front and so I’m always like, “Oh, I'll just go to the front!” because I've kind of gotten past that fear of looking silly because nobody's looking at you when you're in class. Like you're looking at yourself the whole time, you know, nobody's interested, and the only reason why they'd be looking at you is to try and understand it for themselves. I don't feel a sense of judgment in class. I can understand why people would feel that they are being judged but it's never the case.
“I’ve kind of gotten past that fear of looking silly because nobody’s looking at you when you’re in class. Like you’re looking at yourself the whole time, you know, nobody’s interested, and the only reason why they’d be looking at you is to try and understand it for themselves. I don’t feel a sense of judgment in class. I can understand why people would feel that they are being judged but it’s never the case.”
Julie: They have way too many things to think about even know that you're there unless they bump into you in which case they're aware of it but otherwise they have they have so many things to think about.
Lucy: Exactly. And that's very telling; when they bump into you it just goes to show that they are not interested in anybody else in that moment.
Julie: That's it they don't even know where their limbs are. They're so lost in the thought. That's totally right.
Julie: So as you think about the next years with ballet where what do you see as like…. Where do you hope it goes? Where do you see yourself in in a period of time? Or is it just like I love the day to day I love the experience of going. Where are you on that?
Lucy: It's kind of like I love the day to day because I just don't see myself stopping. And I'm not into the whole performance side of things that was very scary. I like the classes, I'll stick to those. And that, yeah, I just like the day to day I enjoy every time there's a new challenge to overcome. And so I mean, in the next few years, for example, perhaps I move again, and I love that I've got something I can always take with me. I can go and find another ballet studio and then go and try all over again. And maybe they do a different technique to what I'm used to. And then I have to, I have to refresh my memory.
Julie: That's always a fun thing I love whenever I travel, is just to take ballet class wherever I go because I love that even if it's not in English, I can still do it, and I can still communicate with people that I could otherwise not communicate with. So I enjoy that a lot. I love watching a video and then you hear the person afterwards and they don't speak English. I'm like, Oh, we just communicated for 20 minutes. And I could have not had a conversation... We can't have coffee together, but we can dance together. And that's super cool.
Lucy: I think it's amazing. And that's another thing I find really exciting about the online community is, you know, when we're allowed to travel again, if you end up going to for example, if I ever go to Denver, you know, there's like people that I could dance with. And you can meet people from around the world like that. And I think it's something very special.
Julie: Yeah, it's very cool. I think my favorite one was when I went to Finland, and that took like a house dance class there, which I guess is really popular at the time. Of course, I don't do much other than ballet in general. So taking house dance taught in Finnish was quite the experience but it was really, really fun because you can just relate to the people there how they relate to each other, right? And you're just like, I mean, it was just like a moment being with these 15 other people doing this dance together and that was like a really…. I remember very little about the trip except that hour. It was really cool.
Lucy: Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. And it's quite courageous as well going and doing such a different style of dance.
Julie: When in Rome
Lucy: Yeah. When in Finland.
Julie: When in Finland. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, it's very fun.
What advice do you have for our listeners?
Julie: Last question for you here. And if anyone listening who is in a similar boat as you picture back to when you saw the adult ballet picture, the sign that it was time. What would what advice would you have for them to just share with them? Or what would you What would you want past you to know at that time in your life?
Lucy: Just go, it’ll be great. That's what I would say just go! Honestly, you don't lose anything. And it's you can only gain from it. It's so much fun. And as well, you've got to think that they’re also adults, you know, they're there for the same reason as you they're just going to be excited that you also get to try something you like when somebody new comes to the studio, I'm straightaway like, “Hey, how are you? Like, how was your first lesson?” because it's just something that you share. It's so much fun. And I say Just do it.
“Just go, it’ll be great. That’s what I would say just go! Honestly, you don’t lose anything. And it’s you can only gain from it. It’s so much fun. And as well, you’ve got to think that they’re also adults, you know, they’re there for the same reason as you they’re just going to be excited that you also get to try something you like when somebody new comes to the studio, I’m straightaway like, “Hey, how are you? Like, how was your first lesson?” because it’s just something that you share. It’s so much fun. And I say Just do it.”
Julie: I love it. Just do it. It's never gonna get easier to do it, so today's a great day to get started.
Lucy: No, it's one of those things you're always happy with. Once you've done it, it's just that pushing yourself to go. It's the only thing.
Julie: Yeah.
Julie: Well, thank you so much for being on the show. What a fun story. I can't believe how many places you lived and how, how all over the place your life has been, but still being able to find this focus and this passion within all of that.
Lucy: Yeah. Ballet’s the best!
Julie: Well, thank you again for being on the show. It's been a lot of fun.
Lucy: All right, thank you. It was great.
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