Broche Banter #28 -- Danielle
Today, I chat with Danielle in The Netherlands.
After a magical experience watching a ballet performance as a child, she danced for several years in her youth. She stopped dancing at the age of 13, and returned to ballet at age 40 after having her second child. From ballet to the oboe to crocheting, Danielle loves to try fun new things, work hard, and persevere through challenges.
Her positive and determined attitude is bound to inspire you and leave a smile on your face.
Enjoy!
Before we get to the show, let’s take our Broche Bite!
On this segment, we’ll talk about bite-size ballet tidbits to give you something to chew on while you listen.
Today, let’s talk about pointe shoes. Many dancers dream of pointe shoes and that magical day when they can dance on their toes!
Often, new dancers think it’s a mystical goal that might take decades to achieve. But, what does getting ready actually entail?
I think of readiness in 3 categories: Ballet technique including core and turnout strength and an understanding of one’s body, ankle flexibility, and foot strength including toes, arches, and calves.
Ballet technique and strength will develop from consistent ballet class. Ankle flexibility may take a bit more work consisting of massage and stretch either on your own or with the help of a professional, depending on prior injuries, history of high-impact sports, or flat feet. And foot strength comes from pre-pointe classes or other focused ankle and foot strengthening exercises.
Some serious injuries can make pointe a risky goal, such as ankle injuries involving metal pins and fused bones. We also need to be careful about osteoporosis, and it’s worth noting that your third trimester isn’t a great time to start pointework.
Generally speaking, aside from these challenges, I have not seen a dancer with a dream of pointe keep coming, keep trying and not make it up onto their toes. With enough hard work, I believe that anyone with the inkling to try pointe can get there! For many adult dancers who are taking ballet consistently, this goal might take as little as 1-2 years.
For more information, visit our website brocheonline.com/journey-to-pointe or our YouTube channel.
Now, onto the show!
Getting back to ballet after dancing ages 6-13 and then restarting at age 40 after 2 kids
Julie: Danielle, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to get to chat with you today.
Danielle: Oh, thanks, Julie. Nice to meet you in person, through the screen.
Julie: That's right. It's very it's very great to meet you. So where are you calling me from today?
Danielle: I'm calling you from the middle of the Netherlands. Across the pond.
Julie: Wow, yes, very far across the pond. That's amazing. What language do you speak there?
Danielle: Well, we speak Dutch But from early on, we learn English and German and French. So, we learn English is is always okay.
Julie: You speak four languages? People there speak 4 languages?
Danielle: No, we get to choose in middle school, secondary school, and from 14 on we can choose what language we want to learn, but they always start from …. well from kindergarten they start with English and from 13 on they start to first add French and then German and then later on you can choose whether you want to do exams.
Julie: Wow.
Danielle: But the first language is Dutch.
Julie: How many of those do you speak?
Danielle: I speak English and German pretty well. French I can understand.
Julie: So did that make it any easier to learn ballet knowing French or was it still are the terms still confusing as to know what's what?
Danielle: No, because I started ballet when I was six. So I think that just came with learning ballet.
Julie: I see
Danielle: And, and I see now that I'm older I started ballet again at 40. And I didn't have to remember what the terms were and what was what?
Julie: Yeah. So how long did you dance? You danced from age six until when?
Danielle: Age 13. I did ballet and then I switched to ballroom dancing for a couple of years. And when I was studying, I did just ballet, just dance. always kept on dancing in different styles. And I took a break and after I had my second child, I started jazz dance again. And at 40, I was wanting to go back to my true love, which was ballet. And now it's, well I'm 45 now, so, five years.
Julie: So you’ve been back at it for a little while. That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. Did you take any more breaks within there? Have you just been like gung ho since you started back up?
Danielle: Well, no, just just one break between when I started working and having children and all that.
Julie: Yeah, that's a lot. Um, how old are your kids now?
Danielle: Well, my, my oldest will be 15 next month, and my youngest is 13. I have two: one girl and one boy.
Julie: That's awesome. Do they keep you pretty busy still? Or are they a little bit more on their own at this point?
Danielle: Yeah, they are more independent. We just have to help them with school a little bit. But most of the time they can do things on their own.
Julie: Nice, then that gives you a little bit more time to dance.
Danielle: Mm hmm, yeah, definitely.
Julie: That's right. I imagine when you have young children it's very hard to squeeze it in.
Danielle: Yeah it is you have to carve one night out so that's mine and the rest of the time will go by so quickly. And now I know I have every night I can turn on the video or something, I can do what I want.
Julie: Yeah, How nice.
Why do you love ballet?
Julie: So why, so ballet is your first love, your true love? What about ballet makes it so special for you?
Danielle: Oh, it was magical. I can remember when I was about eight or so. I love dancing and moving, that's something that always has been in me. But I can remember one time my dad had some special event for his work. And it was in a grand theater here in The Hague in the Netherlands. And it was a classical night with a violinist and THE ballet couple of the time, Alexandra Radius and Han Ebbelaar, and I got to go. I was well, eight or 10 or something and I had to stay up very late to go with my dad to that event. It was magical. That's the fantasy the dreaming, flying. Yeah. That’s it.
“What about ballet makes it so special for you?”
Danielle: “Oh, it was magical. I can remember when I was about eight or so. I love dancing and moving, that’s something that always has been in me. But I can remember one time my dad had some special event for his work. And it was in a grand theater here in The Hague in the Netherlands. And it was a classical night with a violinist and THE ballet couple of the time, Alexandra Radius and Han Ebbelaar, and I got to go. I was well, eight or 10 or something and I had to stay up very late to go with my dad to that event. It was magical. That’s the fantasy the dreaming, flying.””
Julie: Yeah. Now when you did, it's, it's so lucky. I mean, it's I think it's the last thing that still has magic as an adult, right? You get that card tricks. You know, you get how they work, right? Like you get a lot of magical work and you get special effects on TV and it's like, it's cool, but it's not. It doesn't give you quite the same feeling. But ballet can surprise you and it can be a physical sensation that's like new or surprising. It's very… it feels very magical.
Danielle: Yeah, definitely. Still when I go to the theater now, my daughter joins me and we go to a night out or evening, or an afternoon because we can’t stay up too late. And it's we just it's relaxing and just enjoying everything. It's a total experience.
Julie: Yeah, it's really amazing and the physicality of it all, but yet it doesn't look physical at all.
Danielle: No, not at all. And then you know how hard work it is and how those feet must hurt.
Julie: That's right. But yet they show no pain on their face.
Danielle: No
Julie: You can never see it.
Danielle: No.
Returning to Ballet at Age 40
Julie: So when you came back to ballet at the age of 40 did was it still magical on your first day back or did it take you a little bit of time to feel the magic again?
Danielle: No, I think the I was very motivated to do ballet when I was a kid. I even wanted to make a professional career out of it. Unfortunately, the school said no. Auditions went bad, but okay, that happens. But I was very passionate and motivated to do everything. So it was so in my, in my body that when I started again, it was like I never stopped. Just being back right first moment it was surprising but yeah, felt good.
Julie: Yeah, yeah. I've found especially with people who've had that similar experience of it coming right back to them, I've heard funny things from people even saying like that the night after they had their first ballet class, they'll have dreams, like their dreams and memories from when they were a kid because it's so attached to it. Did you have anything like that happened to you?
Danielle: And no, I don't think so. But I can imagine it. It brings back so many memories and so many feelings. Yeah.
Julie: It's like, you're a kid again.
Danielle: Mm hmm. Yeah, definitely.
Julie: Yeah, that's right. But you're not you have a different body.
Danielle: No, not at all. That's right.
Other hobbies, including crocheting, cards and paper crafts, and the oboe
Julie: That's right. So you also have an super interesting hobby that I found on your Instagram, which is super cool. Tell me about your other amazing hobby.
Danielle: Oh, you mean the crocheting or?
Julie: Yeah, yeah, I just started because one of my kids saw a doll, and they wanted to have it. So I said “Okay, well I’ll try it.” And it was so much fun. So I started crocheting and the room is the little goals they were fun to make. And I had a colleague who could explain things when I went wrong or had problems. So that's how I and it's, it's easy because you only need some yarn and you need a hook and that's it. And, and I can put it away when I don't feel like it. And the project takes a little bit longer, but well it's no problem. Yeah, so I have many creative hobbies, I think.
Julie: What are some other ones?
Danielle: Well, I made cards, paper crafting, and I started playing the oboe a couple of years ago.
Julie: Oh wonderful, it’s a beautiful instrument. So pretty.
Danielle: Mm hmm. I just wanted to try it and well, it was too much fun. So now I have lessons.
Julie: Wow. Are you take private lessons or are there group oboe lessons or how does that work?
Danielle: No, it's, well, we have a music school where they give ballet lessons for children and adults. That's where I started. So I just said, well, I love the oboe, I want to try it. And they said, “Well, you can try a lesson.” And they they matched me with with a teacher. And I tried it and it was fun, and we had a great time. So I try “Okay, well, I'll take more lessons.” It’s private, because I'm the only one my age I think with this level but okay, no problem. So now I have once every two weeks I have half an hour lesson. And yeah.
“We have a music school where they give ballet lessons for children and adults. That’s where I started. So I just said, “Well, I love the oboe, I want to try it.” And they said, “Well, you can try a lesson.” And they matched me with with a teacher. And I tried it and it was fun, and we had a great time. So I said “Okay, well, I’ll take more lessons.” It’s private, because I’m the only one my age I think with this level but that’s okay, no problem. So now I have once every two weeks I have half an hour lesson”
Julie: Wow. Like that. Had you played music in the past? Or is this your first experience with music?
Danielle: No, I played the flute? It was a flute that you try In elementary school… that's why I started.
Julie: Yeah,
Danielle: And then I've never never never played an instrument ever. Until now.
Julie: Until the oboe?
Danielle: Yeah.
Julie: It's a very, that's a very random instrument to start with. Well, how did you develop your love of the oboe? I mean, I think it's gorgeous too. But it's so random. It's so specific.
Danielle: The sound, it was the sound. I tried the clarinet too. But I didn't get any sound out. It’s too hard.
Julie: Very hard.
Danielle: So and yeah, and the oboe has, yeah, it's a lovely sound. So well. I thought well, let's try it.
Julie: Yeah.
Danielle: Well, I think you, and that's with the ballet too. I always thought well I'm too old. I'm not so skinny or ballet-like anymore. So, but then I thought, well, why can I start again? or Why? Just try it and we'll see. It's fun. So, okay, let's do it. It doesn't put me back anymore.
“I always thought well I’m too old. I’m not so skinny or ballet-like anymore. But then I thought, “Well, why can I start again?” Just try it and we’ll see. It’s fun. So, okay, let’s do it.”
Julie: Yeah, I agree. There's no, just try it right? If it goes poorly, then don't do it again. Or keep doing it even if you liked it, even if it went poorly. It doesn't really matter.
Danielle: Yeah. And if it doesn't work out, well, okay, you tried it and let's go home.
Julie: Right? Not a big deal.
Danielle: Yeah.
Julie: Music is music I find super interesting. I did music for a very long time. And it there's so many tenants of it about how to practice and how to practice on your own but I feel like I take for granted in terms of being able to practice ballet because I think with ballet, we don't quite have the same culture as music where every music lesson I feel like you are sent home with homework and you are expected to practice 30 minutes a day for all of the days until you see your teacher again. And in music, I think across the board, that's the expectation whether you're in group class or individual class, it's expected that you will go home … and the teacher tells you I mean, there is an assignment every single time. Is that is that the case there as well? How universal is this?
Danielle: Yeah, well, for my oboe, I really we look at what different parts we have and what will be fun to play. And that's my homework. And for ballet, I don't have any. And I remember when we were kids. I did the Royal Academy of Dance method. So we had to practice because we had an exam at the end of the year. And I can remember we were dancing trying to remember all the steps and all the dances in the street with my friends. So but now, no, it's just if we want to go, we go and we don't have to practice anything.
Julie: That's right. It's very, it's very, it's very different. And I forget about the music training because for me has been so long in the past, but when I think back to it, it was very, very rigorous. And I think even friends and people I've met like you who are taking music lessons as adults, it doesn't matter the age, the expectation is that you go home and practice; it's so funny. Yeah, the expectation is, you know, you, you go home and you do your scales and you do your arpeggios and you just, you practice.
Danielle: You have to, because otherwise you're I, when I'm very busy at work, for instance, I can’t practice all the time. So then I went back to class. I was like, “Oh, sorry, I didn't do anything.”
Julie: They can always tell.
Danielle: But you feel really bad because you didn't try. That's the difference.
Julie: Right? Isn't that funny?
Danielle: Yeah, it really is.
Julie: Do you wish ballet had more of it or do like that ballet is… at least in many adult schools … is a little bit more relaxed?
Danielle: Well I like the atmosphere of the more relaxed laid-back lessons, but in me is still that little kid that wants to try even harder every time and wants to learn more and more and then so now, because of your mini-tutorials, I dance every day. And I feel so good. I want to try and practice and get better every time.
“I like the atmosphere of the more relaxed laid-back lessons, but in me is still that little kid that wants to try even harder every time and wants to learn more and more and then so now, because of your mini-tutorials, I dance every day. And I feel so good. I want to try and practice and get better every time.”
Julie: Yeah, that's right. And even a week between, you forget a lot of stuff even a week between thing.
Danielle: Yeah, yeah.
Julie: It's hard to remember all the details. They slip away.
Danielle: Yeah. And when when you have a busy week with work with family and everything. There's so much you take in. You can’t remember everything. Even if you try in the class, you try everything and it's going pretty well. Well, next week can be a totally different ballgame.
Julie: Yeah, it's like you got a whole different body in a week, right? It's a whole new thing, who knows what happened between then and now?
Danielle: Yeah. Totally out the window.
Julie: Yeah, that's right.
Ballet at home
Julie: So what is what have you been doing at this period of time? Obviously the whole world is different. I assume the Netherlands is no different. Are you back to a studio? Are you still at home? What does life look like out there?
Danielle: Well, um, we, when we went into lockdown in March, the studio closed, whether the school closed and we switched to online. So I have one class a week online. And that was okay. It worked. And then we had summer break and now we started a couple of weeks ago. The school started again, the room is open, but it doesn't feel right for me. And I have had a cold and because it was so busy at my work, I wasn't just feeling it so I was like, “Well, I'm not going to into the studio. I'm staying at home and practice there.”
Julie: Yeah.
Danielle: I have my attic here and I can try to make a barre, it's fun to see you with the ladder. I have my drying rack as a barre. It works.
Julie: Yeah, that's right I am I have many times considered upgrading my space like getting a barre, but I do think it's kind of endearing to have the ladder and shows people that you can do it, even if you don't have a barre.
Danielle: Yeah, really!
Julie: I don't have a ton of space. So I'm like, I don't really want to store a bar and this ladder serves multiple purposes. So I just kind of keep rolling with the goofy ladder.
Danielle: Yeah, well, it's your gimmick. Just keep it that way.
Julie: The ladder is a good signature.
Danielle: Yeah, it really is.
Julie: I've always used that ladder, I used to practice at home in New York City when I lived there. And a lot of times it was challenging to get to a class. There's lots of classes but I lived about an hour outside of the city. So on the weekends an hour outside the city becomes like an hour and a half because the trains don't run very often. So I would practice at home. I had the RAD method on my computer too. So I would like do the RAD videos and it was always that step ladder. It's been that same step ladder for years.
Danielle: Oh, wow. Well it works. Maybe I to switch my drying rack to the step ladder, too.
Julie: It's meant to support weight, I feel like, because it's meant for you to stand on it, so that's why I like it.
Danielle: Yeah, and it’s a bit higher.
Julie: That's right. I know. Um, are you tall?
Danielle: Uh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm taller than my drying rack.
Julie: That's one funny thing about meeting people on the internet. You never know how it's all there. Everyone looks the same height on zoom. Everyone looks the same size.
Danielle: I'm one meter 75 but I'm not sure what it's in inches or feet or anything. [For the record, this is 5’9”!]
Julie: Yeah, I don't know. That is a very hard one to translate.
Danielle: Yeah.
Julie: I couldn’t tell you. Um, yeah, taller than the average?
Danielle: Yeah, taller than the average. Yeah. Little bit. Yeah, I need a bit higher bar. Yeah.
Julie: That's funny.
Goals, motivation, and perseverance
Julie: So what is your what is what do you have your eyes set on next whether in your hobbies and your oboe in your ballet? What do you have your eyes set on next? Or do you just love getting up and doing it every day?
Danielle: Yeah, well, I think the goal now is to keep moving every day, because well, because of all the situation now I stay at home for work. Well, at least until January. Things will be different and I love… it's a mental thing, I think. Just keep on moving every day will keep me sane.
“I think the goal now is to keep moving every day, because well, because of all the situation now I stay at home for work. Well, at least until January. Things will be different and I love… it’s a mental thing, I think. Just keep on moving every day will keep me sane.”
Julie: Yeah.
Danielle: So that's what… and I like to, I feel the basics… I want to get my basics better. So I’m going back to basic barre classes and trying to strengthen my core. So that's the first goal I have.
Julie: Yeah, yeah, that's great. You do many many different things. Do you ever get discouraged in any of those things? Or how do you… what is your sensation?
Danielle: Oh, no, I don't think so.
Julie: Where did that come from?
Danielle: Just keep on trying.
Julie: You seem to have a very just keep going keep doing an attitude. It seems like lockdown didn't phase you that much.
Danielle: Oooohhh
Julie: Well, okay, so maybe that was inaccurate.
Danielle: Well, we had a we had a difficult family. Someone in family died just before we went into lockdown.
Julie: Oh my gosh.
Danielle: So it has been a bit of a…. it has been hard. But it's in my I think it's in my mentality to to keep on being positive and to keep on getting energy from everything. It can also be…. it can also work against me, just because I want to go and go and go, I just have to take back a little bit sometimes.
Julie: Yeah.
Danielle: I just I think I found the things that give me energy. I found them now and that's where I stick to. And the rest is going a bit on the back burner and when I have time, I have time and otherwise not.
“I think it’s in my mentality to keep on being positive and to keep on getting energy from everything. It can also work against me, just because I want to go and go and go, I just have to take back a little bit sometimes.
I just I think I found the things that give me energy. I found them now and that’s where I stick to. And the rest is going a bit on the back burner and when I have time, I have time and otherwise not.”
Julie: Yeah, were you were you always like that when you were a kid? Were you kind of just go with it. Keep going keep plodding along or do you remember if you had a time when you kind of learned this mentality?
Danielle: I think I've always had it. I don't know if it only showed. I think it always has been in me.
Julie: Yeah, that's amazing. It's always fun to hear everyone's different perspectives and where they come from right? Motivation is always such a hard thing to come by and the drive to continue and the discipline to keep going even when you're not getting results in something is actually quite difficult to find and achieve so I'm always very curious to hear how people got where they are, where they want to go, you know how everyone got their their perspective.
Danielle: Yeah, well i think it's just, I can be frustrated when something doesn't work and then I have to just take a step back and look at it and oh, then later on we try again. And if we really want it then I keep on trying until it works. Determination that's sometimes a bit irritating but yeah.
“I can be frustrated when something doesn’t work and then I have to just take a step back and look at it and oh, then later on we try again.
And if we really want it then I keep on trying until it works.
Determination is sometimes a bit irritating, but yes”
Julie: Yeah, I guess the key there is that you said if you really want that you keep on trying right. But at a certain point, if we don’t really care about it. It's not worth the effort.
Danielle: No, it's the same way when when something is lost in this house. It's only lost when my mom can't find it. It really is, because I keep on trying and looking for it.
Julie: That’s funny.
Yeah, well, last question for you here. Do you have any I know it's already been 25 minutes? flies, flies. Yeah. Last question for you, um, for anyone out here listening to us right about wanting to get back into ballet, especially after a long break, or any anyone who wants to try something, maybe even music, right? Because you've tried so many things. Do you have any last words that you wanted to tell our listeners about why it's worth it to go take that leap, or anything you want to impart on to our listeners?
Danielle: Well, I think when you really want to try something, you just do it. Because as I said, you only can regret it if you don't do it and try it. And if it doesn't work out, well, okay, that's fine. But otherwise, you can miss out on so many fun things. Just do it. Don't think you're too old or too young or you don't have the body for it, because that's one I know. Just do it.
“When you really want to try something, you just do it. Because as I said, you only can regret it if you don’t do it and try it. And if it doesn’t work out, well, okay, that’s fine. But otherwise, you can miss out on so many fun things. Just do it. Don’t think you’re too old or too young or you don’t have the body for it, because that’s one I know. Just do it.”
Julie: Love it. It couldn’t be more straightforward, though very hard to execute on. It's always worth giving a try if it's really in your heart.
Danielle: Yeah, definitely.
Julie: Always worth it.
Danielle: Yeah.
Julie:Thank you, Danielle. This is so much fun to get to know you, this was fabulous. Thank you for coming on the show with me. I'm really delighted to hear all the fun stuff you're doing out there and can't wait to keep following your story.
Danielle: Yeah, you’re welcome! Yeah, well, thank you, Julie, for having me. And I didn’t think I have a fun story, so it's nice chatting to you.
Julie: I think your story is great. You've got so much interesting stuff for I think for adults, we forget that we're supposed to keep learning through our adult life and we forget that we're still a work in progress. And just because we have a job and a kid and all of that stuff, we still need to keep learning and keep having fun and keep making our lives interesting and it sounds like you just did such an awesome job with that with all your different hobbies and things that you've tried. So it's very inspiring.
Danielle: Thank you so much.
Julie: Well thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Danielle: You're welcome.
