Broche Banter #7 -- Elyse
Today on Broche Banter, we have Elyse — a dancer in her mid-30s who works in the education field.
We talk about her goal-setting prowess, overwhelm, and the reinforcement loop of ballet.
Enjoy!
Why did you want to start ballet?
Julie (studio owner): So Elyse, tell me about why you wanted to start ballet.
Elyse: Yeah, that’s a great first question! I’ve always had sort of an intrigue or interest around ballet, even when I was younger. I never did it when I was younger, but I always thought that it was so beautiful and something that I wanted to try. When I moved to Denver later as an adult, I had done some research years and years ago about trying to take on this new hobby. Eventually I revisited that at different points and I found the studio. I wanted to take ballet to do something that felt beautiful and graceful, but could also be challenging and would allow me to set some goals to meet along the way.
J: That’s awesome. That sounds very much like what ballet is all about. You’ve been dancing for almost a year now, is that right?
E: Yep! I think I joined the studio last April.
J: Yeah, I was just thinking that it’s time for your pointe evaluation pretty soon.
E: Yeah! Pretty soon.
J: Very exciting!
Tell us about what you do for work, since it’s related to goals & progress!
J: I’m super excited to talk to you today especially because I know a little bit about how you work on measuring progress in the school system and that whole concept. Ballet is so about progress, as you mentioned in your intro here. I’m super excited to hear a little bit about your thoughts on progress and goals. So tell me about your work and what you do in general.
E: So in general, when I’m not dancing at the studio, I work at Denver Public Schools. I’m the associate director of strategy and organizational change management, and as part of that role, one of the things that my team does is we progress monitor our progress towards our strategies to make sure that we’re serving our students in ways that help encourage their achievement and decrease those opportunity gaps with different groups of students. It’s something that has been important to me throughout my life is to think of ways to check in on progress, so that’s one of the reasons that ballet has been really fun is because there’s natural leveling that is included. A major level being the ability to dance en pointe, so that’s been a fun thing to track throughout ballet. Learning the new things at the barre as well as in the center and being able to look back and see that progress in place.
J: That’s fascinating. I’m sure that’s a very complex thing to track as far as all of the different walks of life that people can be coming from, and the very wide range of opportunity gaps. That’s a huge range of things that could be going on there.
E: Yeah, a whole lot of stuff!
J: So, I don’t know if it’s different between ballet and what you’re doing, but one thing that we’ve experienced is that people have different goals. So when helping people towards those goals, what those goals are, how to work towards them is always very interesting for us to figure out. Do you work on different goals with your students’ progress or is everyone marching towards the same thing?
E: Absolutely. It’s differentiated based on student goals. One of the things we focus on within DPS is joyful, rigorous, and personalized learning, with that last part being the personalized component. So making sure that we’re checking in with students about their own personal career goals and that we’re differentiating our instruction and our programs and services to ensure that students are going towards what they would like to do, versus a “one size fits all” component. I can see within the ballet studio that we have lots of different options for people who are interested in different types of things depending on what their personal goals are.
J: Do you track your goals with ballet in similar ways that you do at work, or do you keep these parts of your life separate?
E: Actually, I do write little goals. I like goal-setting in general. At the beginning of the year, I wrote some goals around progressing through different levels, committing to the practice so goals around doing ballet, making sure I’m going at least once twice a week, I even set a little socialization goal so I’m either going to go to a performance or do the book club, so I set a goal around that. Of course, the major goal is always dancing en pointe so that’s been a goal for me too.
J: That’s fun. It’s always fun to see those goals and then once you reach them what comes next.
E: You’ve got to set new ones, I guess!
J: What I find interesting about the goals that you’ve set is that they seem very process oriented. I didn’t hear you say that you want double pirouettes, I didn’t hear you say that you want to do an amazing tendu, was that purposeful? Is that something that you’ve learned through your work?
E: I think it could be a little bit about my nicent understanding of different components of ballet so I’m certainly learning. I’m still a beginner so it feels interesting to think about what types of things I would like to do within the context of that, so actually you’re making me think that could be fun to think about now is specific things that I want to work on like a double pirouette. That sounds really hard right now!
What keeps you coming back to ballet?
J: That’s awesome. So what keeps you coming back to ballet? Is it because you have these goals set? Do you have these goals set because you want to keep coming back? What keeps you excited about it?
E: I think that there is some aspect-- I can’t quite put my finger on it-- but there’s some aspect of a reinforcement loop that feels really good about ballet, where you’re working towards either bigger or micro goals and then you’re able to achieve them in class and that feels really good, so that makes you want to continue to progress, so I think there’s a natural component of ballet that makes people want to go on because there’s so much that you could master and so many things that you could decide that you want to do, so I think I’ve somehow fallen into that loop. In a less serious mode, I really like all of the outfits. I know that’s very silly but I will call it out. That’s a really fun aspect of getting the leotard, the shoes, and the tights and I think that it feels really good to wear that to class when I want to. I like that part too.
J: Looking the part is so fun. We’ve been wearing tutus in our Tuesday classes. Sometimes you want to just feel like a dancer.
E: I completely agree.
J: Yeah, the gear is most of the fun.
Do you ever find your goals overwhelming?
J: So you’re talking about all of the wonderful things that could be accomplished. Some people would find that overwhelming. Do you ever find it overwhelming or are you so excited to accomplish your goals that you don’t feel that?
E: I think I’ve definitely had feelings of overwhelmingness especially with some of my turns, where I just think, “oh my gosh I’m never going to be able to do any of these turns,” but then something magical happens, and I’ll all of a sudden feel very confident and I’ll be able to do it. There are pits and peaks. We do get into those pits where we’re feeling discouraged or something isn’t quite working, or we’re really tired or had a bad day at work, and that’s influencing what we’re doing. I certainly fall into those areas of feeling a little discouraged or maybe overwhelmed by the amount I need to do to look like the people on stage (which is a very far-stretched goal), but it’s very large discipline that takes a lot of time to master, but I have not been absent from those feelings.
J: Did it ever get so intense that you wanted to quit? Or are they always things you can power through?
E: I think maybe there was one day where I was physically ill, I wasn’t feeling well. I remember feeling like in class, “why am I even doing this? This is ridiculous. I’m nearing 40 and I’m trying to learn something new and I’m terrible. Why am I even trying?” I had those self doubts and those feelings of, “why bother?” But once I was feeling a little bit physically better and in a happier mental state, I was able to refocus those feelings of this is a great community, a great activity, and it’s worthwhile to continue to try new things.
J: It’s amazing how just one little negativity stream can really unravel all of those thoughts.
E: It really can. It just throws it through a little area and you’re like, “oh gosh, I didn’t realize I had all of these insecurities.”
J: Well I’m glad you pushed through it. It’s always good to overcome those kinds of feelings.
Do you have long-term goals?
J: So we’ve talked a lot about goals and where you see yourself. I heard you mentioned wanting to perform a little bit at some point. Do you have big, long-term things that you’d love to be able to do one day?
E: I think it could be really nice to do something that feels meaningful and artistic in a performance where I can invite the people that I care about to see it. When I’m not working or doing ballet, I’m also a writer so there is something about me that is drawn to performance and exploration of different things. I don’t know what that would look like, but I think that it could be neat whether it’s in one of the recitals or something just to do something that feels monumental that then I can share with people that might come see it. That feels really conceptual and big though right now.
J: That’s exciting. It’s fun to use ballet as a mode of expression, not just as the technical discipline aspect of it.
E: Yeah, it has that opportunity that you could do a little bit of both.
J: Yeah, for sure. Do you ever think about other styles of dance as well, like a more contemporary ballet flavor? Or are you a bunhead through and through?
E: I have been enjoying the classical ballet right now. I haven’t really thought much about the different varieties of ballet, but I have been enjoying exploring the more classical type.
J: I agree.
What is your biggest challenge?
J: As you think about any of your goals or any of your ballet journey, what do you find to be your biggest challenge?
E: As an adult with a job, truly I think that the biggest challenge is sometimes I’m so tired at the end of the day. There’s always that wondering of, “Oh, should I just go home?” I think we all can feel really tired, so just making sure that you’re making time for the things you want to do. Luckily, I’ve been really consistent with it throughout the last year which I think has only helped me with strength and progressing, so that’s been helpful but there’s always that temptation and challenge of thinking I could go home and relax right now instead of diving into something else.
J: Totally. Especially because it’s very intense both physically and mentally, so it can be very challenging to pull it together. Even if you’ve had a slightly negative day, it can be really hard to put yourself in that mindset, get yourself in the studio, work hard, and be focused.
E: Yeah, I completely agree.
J: I think everyone is going through that right now being home with the COVID situation, everyone is under a certain amount of anxiety. No matter who you are and where you are, if you don’t have some level of anxiety, you’re not living in the same world as the rest of us. Everyone has some base-level of uncertainty.
E: It’s like a magnifying glass for that right now.
J: It’s massive. So it’s very difficult to show up at the end of the day, if you had a long day, a hard day, a stressful day then the end of the day comes, you really would just prefer to have that glass of wine.
E: Right, exactly. Just relax.
J: But I think we all know we feel better after we move.
E: Exactly, I never have regretted going to class. I can’t think of a single time where I thought, “oh, I wish I wouldn’t have done that.”
J: It’s just getting yourself there and finding that motivation.
Do you have any advice for dancers listening?
J: So, the last question I have for you is that we have a lot of dancers out there maybe listening who are either nervous to get in the studio or have trouble finding the motivation to get to class or are anxious about the whole situation. Do you have anything that has helped you in the past that maybe you could share with them?
E: Yeah! So I did the Overture Program because I was a complete novice so I didn’t even do it when I was little and I had no knowledge at all. I’d say that that program was especially designed for folks who maybe were in that same circumstance where I was feeling a little nervous and a little hesitant. My instructor was Jackie and she was so great at making all of our questions feel really welcome and addressing them in a way that decreased those nerves. Then, just being around that motivation I think that once I was in there with the barre and looking in the mirror, that felt really great and so I kept going back. It was just really fun and it was fun to meet the other ladies in the studio and just chit-chat because I think everyone was coming from similar backgrounds.
J: Ballet does tend to attract people of similar mindsets and desires. If you find this type of thing enjoyable, you probably are somewhat detailed of a person and have that kind of mindset going on.
E: Yeah, so if anybody was interested, I would just urge them to give it a shot and see if they like it. There are opportunities to go as deep as you want.
J: That’s true. You can go as far as you want. If it’s not for you, it’s low risk and you can just hop right out.
E: Exactly. I think that that’s a good assessment of that.
J: Do you have anything you want to add about your ballet journey that we didn’t cover today?
E: I think I’ve just been really thankful for the studio. I also wanted to express gratitude for how you’re handling the pandemic situation. I think it’s been fun to log in and see the instructors and do the different things that you have available, so I really appreciate that. It’s been nice to have that level of connection and somewhat normal behavior around doing things during a time of uncertainty, so I appreciate you all and thank you so much. Thanks for always being so nice to me in general when I email questions or stuff, it’s been kind and I feel like I’m part of the studio.
J: I think you’re definitely part of the studio. You always have awesome feedback, questions, ideas, and thoughts and it’s always fun to have you around and in class. It’s fun to see everyone online and in the studio very soon as well, I’m sure.
E: Yeah, I hope so too.
