Broche Banter #16 -- Erin
Today on the show, we have Erin, who formerly danced with us in Denver before moving to London about a year ago. We talk about her struggles with ballet as a very serious teenage dancer, her return to the barre after an 8-year break, and how she finds the joy in dancing in a new body, for new reasons, and for, well, fun.
Enjoy!
Julie: Erin, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you on roast banter this week, Erin, that you are now in England somewhere and we can hardly keep track of where you've moved to.
Erin: I am in Redding. So we're in Berkshire. Right.
J: Okay. Okay. So your same place that I've talked with you last?
E: I believe so. Yes. Right. It would have been here about a year. Okay. Yeah, we are thinking of moving into London. But given everything in general going on in our lives, we are going to re-up our lease for about six months and then probably look at it at that point. So yeah
J: Well, Erin used to dance with us in Denver when she lived in Denver briefly and when we had our Denver studios, she made this lovely ballet painting that's like right behind this door actually hanging in my apartment now. And she was really just a huge part of the beginning of the studio because you came into the studio Erin, I think probably in late summer, the first year that we opened when we only had our baby tiny studio and you stayed with us for the whole time you were in Denver.
E: Yeah.
J: Crazy. So you, you danced, you dance a lot as a kid like you came in with lots and lots of technique. You had taken a break. How long would that break?
E: Um, I'm gonna say it was probably eight or nine years. I don't have exactly but yeah, I danced from I started dancing when I was five and I danced up until I was 18. Including towards the end there especially pretty seriously. And then I took a very long break and came back with you guys. You were my first studio foroay back into the ballet world so…
J: So your preview lesson with me was the first time you had dance said high school?
E: I may have taken one or two, like open classes in New York when I first moved there for college, but certainly, yeah, I mean, basically since I was 18, or 19. Yeah.
J: Are you still dancing in England?
E: I am. I'm still dancing in lockdown. And I was dancing before that, too.
What got you to come back and give it another try?
J: That's awesome. So why did you.. okay … so eight or nine years of time has passed right? You grow up you become a person, right? You, all of these things that happened when you leave high school yet why? Why did you come back? Was it a spur of the moment thing? Had you been thinking about it for a while? What what happened leading up to when I met you?
E: Um, so actually, this was a gift from my husband, as you know, he got me a gift certificate to come take classes with you. Um, there's sort of, yeah, I'm not exactly sure why this inspired me or him to do this. I think there's a whole kind of storied past of why I quit. And I think I needed the time. And I guess right around the time that we were in Denver, I was sort of feeling like in a good enough place to maybe give it another shot. And I had mentioned that in passing, and my wonderful husband picked up on it and got me the gift certificate to come try classes. And I just like fell in love all over again.
J: I can't believe I had that had slipped my mind when you mentioned it here. Because I remember very vividly when Christian called me because I had just left the chiropractor at that point. I still had that back injury where I couldn't sit for about a year. And I was leaving the chiropractor and I got a call. And of course, it was early in the business. I never got calls and it was really, really exciting to get phone calls, right. I remember he was like, Can I buy a gift card for my wife and I was like, hmmmm can you can buy gift cards?? but I was like, Yes, you can buy a gift card. I'll send it to you later. So then Meanwhile, like rush home from the chiropractor, I'm like, how do I sell a gift card?
E: My gosh, he was so proud of this present. This is like a thing in our relationship, but I'm known for really good gift giving. And he, he thinks he struggles with it. I don't think he does. But he feels like it's very hard for him. And he is to this day, he thinks it's the best gift he's ever given me. He's so proud of this. He put a lot of effort into getting me back in and he's right. It was a wonderful gift.
J: Well, I'm glad he put as much effort into it as I did. I had no idea how to sell a gift card at that point in time. I don't even remember if I made something prettier if I just said, here's some classes. That's funny. That's really funny.
You had beautiful technique when you came in to the studio, how did it feel for you?
J: Well, I remember when I met you, you came in with so many so much technique. I mean, you had just beautiful technique like you kept your legs turned out you kept your body lifted. It was very clear that when you stepped in the valleys you had been in many, many of these before and even when you got your appointments, that kind of thing This girl has done like point before, right? You have the technique of it. Did you did you feel like Do you agree with that statement for when you walked in? How did it feel to you from your perspective?
E: Oh, gosh, I still don't feel like that. So, I mean, I think so I think a little perspective from this, um, and one of the things I really appreciate you taking classes with you is, there's a little bit of a difference in my kind of definition of, I guess, like, what is good and isn't because when I was younger and doing it in high school, when I say that I was serious, I like was going to move to New York and be a professional dancer. Like, I was very serious. I was doing 20 hours a week of rehearsals and a lot of stuff. And I think that that works your perspective in a couple ways. I mean, on the one way, literally, I was had a lot of technique, technically. But also I think when that's what you're striving for your idea of like where you are and whether you're doing an okay job gets a little warped, because, you know, I was going to be I mean, I wasn't, but in my mind, I was going to be in the corps de ballet of ABT and so that is a whole other world Kind of where you want to be.
And I spent, I mean, I spent 13, 14 years dancing, never actually feeling like I did anything super well, because there's always the next thing you're trying to get to, there's always a next level that you want to hit.
““And I spent, I mean, I spent 13, 14 years dancing, never actually feeling like I did anything super well, because there’s always the next thing you’re trying to get to, there’s always a next level that you want to hit.””
So I think, coming into ballet with you, and I've also realized since then just adult ballet in general, there's so many more compliments and so much more of a like, Oh, you did that really well. And I just, even if it was said to me, when I was younger, I didn't hear it. When I was younger, I heard what needed to be fixed, because there was a very big goal at the end of it. And so now I still struggle with actually thinking that I'm pretty okay at it. Because it's just not how I'm used to. It's not the perspective. I'm used to coming at it from my desk. And so especially going back after a long break, I felt like you were saying things like, well, that's a good turn. And I felt like that was a garbage turn. I didn't I got around once and I fell over like it was terrible. But I think it's just a mind shift, right? It's just a perspective change that I needed to get used to as an adult. I think
J: It's, it's a very it's a very fine line always in life in dance and whatever, from accepting the things that you're good at while still having an eye for things that you want to be better at, right? There's a fine line there where you can say I am good enough at this, but I want to still be better at it. But that doesn't mean that this was inherently bad, doesn't. That doesn't negate the fact that you can still be better at it. So it's like a weird thing that we need to learn, as we especially learn in the ballet studio, but those of us who ballet attracts kind of have this problem in our whole life, right? So your expectation of yourself is so high and then when other people give you a compliment you're like, but don't you see how much better that can be?
How to hear the compliments when you do something well
E: I mean, I think one of the things that I've been working on a lot in dancing as an adult is a little bit of a pivot, but I think relates that has helped me with getting used to that with hearing the compliments and getting used to a new perspective is and this is a big, big shift Also with us. Like body image things and dance is the difference between what something looks like it is or is doing and what it feels like you're doing and what you're doing.
Dance is still a performance at the end of the day, if you're doing it in a professional setting anyway, or when you're growing up at least, and I think a lot of adults do see this as well, you do a performance, right. And that's the point you're working towards what it looks like to other people. And so I think there's a lot of like, oh, but that could have looked better. That could have been more turned out I could have landed it better.
Whereas now I try a lot more to focus on just did that feel fun, right? So if it was a double or triple, but I felt solid at it, like that felt like a fun turn and a good turn. And, you know, maybe the landing felt a little off or maybe it wasn't perfect, but look at this cool thing that I did and did I feel good doing it? And that really was a really, really big shift for me.
It sounds really silly and minute, but this was a massive shift for me away from did that look good and could it have been fixed to, like, did that feel good? And Was that fun for me? And, and then I think you get away from like, you know, a lot of the aesthetic stuff and more into look at this cool thing that I have, like taught my body to do and that I can do now. And, and then all of the improvements, I think, also stop feeling, you know, aesthetic and feel a lot more like Turning is fun, and it would be fun if I could do it an extra time. And so what do I need to fix to do that? And that little shift helps me I think also feel like, I don't know, more able to take the compliment, right? Because then it's not that something was broken needs to be fixed. It's just, I could do this fun thing for a little longer or a little more fun if I if I took this extra bit in. I don't know, maybe that's just me, but that that shift has helped me a lot I think.
J: Well, it's weird even to hear the word fun in even this podcast because no one has. I mean, no one uses the word fun to describe dancing and I'm sure you didn't either. Even when I met you, you probably didn't use the word fun to describe dancing. Because, I mean it is, I mean, it is fun, right? Obviously, if we keep coming, we keep doing it, we don't quit, we have the choice, and we actually actively pay money and get off the couch to go do it. Therefore we must enjoy it on some level, but it is actually kind of funny. Um, and I'm sitting here like, why are you feeling so weird about hearing the word fun in this conversation?
E: It's just very badly specific, too right, because you don't go to the club and think, Oh, I'm dancing because of this important thing. You're dancing because it's fun. You do hip hop, because it's fun, you do jazz because it's fun. So I think I think ballerinas are very weird. And they take it a little too seriously that it's very, you know, and I'm like, No, you're also doing ballet because it's fun, or else why are you doing it?
J: But I like your perspective about improving to have more fun is very interesting, because I feel like a lot of us are afraid to say that it's fun because then we'll become complacent or we won't strive for the next thing or we won't remain motivated to continue improving. But if you're like actually it was fun to improve. It was fun to get better. It was fun. do that thing. It would be fun to learn this stuff, then it is not like you're not stopping.
E: Yeah, no. Turns are my perfect analogy for this right? Because I love turns. As you know, I'm a center girl and I love big jumps. And I love turns. And turns are the most fun thing to me in the world. It's like the closest to like flying I can imagine, I think like doing fouettés is the best. And so if you think about like, yes, that turn was fun. I'm not I'm not inclined to feel super complacent, because I'm like, but I can do it twice. I can get around three times and I can have three times as much fun spinning, if I could get a little better at it. Um, but I just think it makes me feel a little better about it if I just do the one turn. That's okay, that was still a good time. And it wasn't wrong. I got around, right. So it wasn't wrong. I just, I just want to do it more. I want to do this thing more and so what do I work on to do it more? Um, I don't know I in my mind turns are like kind of the perfect analogy for these things because a single turn is great. It's just do you want to spin around more and have more fun and then What do you do? But it's not it's nothing was broken. You know you got around.
““I love turns. As you know, I’m a center girl and I love big jumps. And I love turns. And turns are the most fun thing to me in the world. It’s the closest to like flying I can imagine, I think doing fouettés is the best.
And so if you think about like, yes, that turn was fun, then I’m not inclined to feel super complacent, because I’m like, but I can do it twice. I can get around three times and I can have three times as much fun spinning, if I could get a little better at it.
I just think it makes me feel a little better about it if I just do the one turn. That’s okay, that was still a good time. And it wasn’t wrong. I got around, right. So it wasn’t wrong. I just, I just want to do it more. I want to do this thing more and so what do I work on to do it more?
Turns are like kind of the perfect analogy for these things because a single turn is great. It’s just do you want to spin around more and have more fun and then What do you do? But it’s not it’s nothing was broken. You know you got around. ””
J: So it was mediumly fun. It's just that you could have massive fun.
E: Right? Exactly.
J: I think for me, the equivalent of that would be high legs in a developpé, like it is so fun to just feel your legs floating and like going up when you're not really struggling against them. Like when you get that feeling. I would say that that is the equivalent for me of like, it is fun. How can I get them hired? Because it is super cool. You're like, look at that leg up there, how cool is that?
E: It's always really good to take. I mean, at least for me, I know I've hinted at this earlier in the conversation, but part of why I left was body image issues that I know are common in ballet. And it's always really good for me to remind myself of why I'm doing it and that I like it and then it's a good time. And I think one of the great things about adult classes is that's sort of the focus right? The compliments happen and you can hear them because why would you not? You don't need to focus on any other crazy goal. You You're just here, like you said, I went out of my way to pay for this and show up to this class. Because I want to be here because this is a good time for me. And so why not listen to the compliments that are given to me? And I've noticed that in my teachers as well, to a lot of teachers that teach, especially in London, I go to classes where they teach exclusively adults, which I know, you know, you mostly were doing as well. And there's so much more willing to just go Oh, that was great. Here's something that you do great. And it's like, I don't know if I I think it's probably a mix of I wasn't hearing the compliments when I was younger, but I don't think teachers who teach younger kids give them out as much.
J: No, no
E: They're also really focused on the goal of which one of my dancers is going to go be a professional and do this very serious thing that it gets lost. And so you know, for me, it's really important when I go to classes to take a second and hear that and be pumped about it. And even if nobody says anything, even if you're in class with 40 people in a giant studio, and you land a double and it's not a big deal because everyone around you landed a double, you just are pumped! Like be pumped about it, you know, having that excitement. I feel like other types of dance are so easy to be pumped about things. And ballerinas are very like okay, but now the triple and it's like, you can do that in a second, take a minute and be really excited about the cool thing you just did. That's really cool. A lot of people can't do it. So…
““And so you know, for me, it’s really important when I go to classes to take a second and hear [those compliments] and be pumped about it. And even if nobody says anything, even if you’re in class with 40 people in a giant studio, and you land a double and it’s not a big deal because everyone around you landed a double, you just are pumped! Like be pumped about it, you know, having that excitement. I feel like other types of dance are so easy to be pumped about things. And ballerinas are very like okay, but now the triple and it’s like, you can do that in a second, take a minute and be really excited about the cool thing you just did. That’s really cool. ””
J: That's right. It's very cool. And I don't think I don't think that that teachers give compliments to kids in that same way. I think it's, you know, maybe only one of the kids get the compliment, you know, the one who is being groomed for the for the top maybe would get one but even then I think the motivation is the notion that you're not good enough as a person, as a as a dancer, as whatever. And I think I don't think it's on purpose necessarily. I think it's just what we've all been trained as, and so therefore we pass it down, because that's just how you train like, I think, in ballet, it's just the it's just the way of things and we just never stopped to ask, like, should we enjoy this process?
Corrections mean that you’ve got potential
E: Yeah, no, I remember when I was younger we used to go to ….. because mostly I trained with the same teacher for a lot of my dance career. But we used to go to these workshops every every year, sometimes twice a year. We would go to these different sort of statewide or in a couple places regionwide different dance events for like a week. And it was to get training with, you know, professionals would come down and teach a class or different teachers. I used to always fight with my ballet teacher because she really wanted us to take ballet classes, and especially me, and I really wanted to take like the West African class that they had on Tuesday.
But that aside, I remember one of the things that she told us and I think this is very, you know, solid throughout, at least dancing with in ballet with younger kids is, if you are getting corrected, that means that you're good. They pick the kid that they think can make improvements, they pick the few kids at the top that they think are going to go be professionals, or we're going to do this seriously. And those are the ones that they say, you know, turn out your leg more or here's what you need to do to get that triple in or, you know, you're not pointing your toes properly, whatever. And I think that in the dance world that is viewed as mentoring right? We recognize that you're doing a good job, and we want to help you get to that next level. And I think you're right. I think what gets missed is, if you I mean, in either case, right? If you're the kid not getting any feedback, then are you being fair to that set of students that are not maybe that want some feedback, they're getting it. But then even for the students that is told, you know, “this means you're good. This is this is because they believe in you,” it's hard to really take that in that way. Is that the the best way to do it? because then it's like, “Okay, well, I'm good at this thing. Because everyone's constantly picking out everything I'm doing wrong, it's like a sign that I'm good at this thing?” And it's very, very weird.
And I think, in the adult world, at least in my experience, it's a big shift, right? It's, it's, at least the teachers that I've taken that I like taking and I keep going back to their classes like yours, like, yes, you're going to get feedback, but if you're good, I'm going to tell you something was good. And that's, you don't get that when you're younger. It's very, very odd and off putting at first you know, you're not used to someone in…. In life if you just want walk up to me and said, I like your shirt. I would go Oh, thanks. You know, here's where I got it. But in the ballet studio if you go, Oh, that was a good turn. I'm like, What? You don't know what to do with it for a while, you know, you have to adjust.
But I think you're right. I think in for the younger kids. It's that mentality of if we're, if we're picking these things out that are to be fixed. It's because we think you can get to the next level because we think that you're really good. And nobody really says is that really what we should be doing to 12 year old & 13 year olds? Non stop nitpicking everything they're doing wrong?
J: Totally, I mean, it's always a question of like, can you? Can you get to the top without that? And if the top is your goal, how much of that do you need, right? So it's a different world than the world we're living in where fun is important. And motivation is important. And having an escape from your life is important and feeling like we're good people and whole humans and all of that stuff is like a part of what we do in the studio, right? We have slightly different goals. But yeah, it is.
On the experience of returning to the studio and comparing yourself to your past younger body
J: I think another big shift people have coming back is sort of like, and I know you and I have talked to this a lot like the memory of your past is hazy. But you also have memories of like flying, you have memories of great success in things whether or not you actually thought in your mind, you can feel the success in your body, you can feel the success of lifting your leg, you can feel the success of doing a pure what. And then when you come back to a fresh body, you know, a body that's been sitting in chair for eight years, you're like, Huh, how?
E: Yeah, we we joked about this too, because I think you also have when I first came back, I don't know if you remember I do when I first came back and started taking classes with you. And especially and I think it was my first or second either the preview class or my first actual class with you. We did some things in center and I had this muscle memory of what I was doing. And so you did a combination and in my subconscious brain or my muscles or wherever they were was time for a triple. And I went to go do it. And I did my full force and realized I could not do a triple anymore. I almost fell over. Because, you know, again, and I don't think I was thinking, I'm gonna go for a triple I think I heard music and I was used to ballet and I said, Okay, and I went to do a turn and I put way more force than I could ever handle. My core had not handled triples for eight years. And I was not ready for it. And I almost fell over.
And I have to remind myself, like, I know that my legs think that they can go up there because they remember going up there but they actually cannot anymore. And I need to like be okay with that. I mean, I think there's a physical element of getting back in shape, but also a mental element of this will still be a good class, even if my leg isn't next to my ear very easily, like it used to be or at all ever.
““I think there’s a physical element of getting back in shape, but also a mental element of this will still be a good class, even if my leg isn’t next to my ear very easily, like it used to be or at all ever.””
J: So a lot of people quit after that first experience. Did you did you want to?
E: Um, man, the first couple is rough. I'm not gonna lie. One of the benefits is My husband did not give me a gift certificate for a preview who got me a gift certificate for like four classes. He he fully knew, or at least in his mind thought the gift needed to be multiple sessions. Which was, which was genius. Because after the first preview, again, you've sat here and said, like, Oh, I have so much technique, and I walked away like, Oh, my God, yeah. What have I been doing? for eight years? I have never going to be good at this again. and was like, a little bummed when I got home. Um, but after I mean, it was pretty quick, I think a couple of classes in to actually taking classes with you. And I was like, not that I was anywhere near where I was, but I felt like oh, yeah, this is some work. Like I remember, it was like those extra classes reminded me that you don't just stand on stage and do fouettés, you do an hour and a half of barre many hours a week and you get and you build up the muscles and remind yourself of these things. And I think all I needed was just a couple extra classes of reminders of the work that I put in to go Okay, now I'll get there again, like it'll be okay. But yeah, no the first one was a little rough. Yeah.
J: It is for everyone, it is for everyone. And I've always debated if we should, you know, have a separate room with no mirrors for people who are coming back for the first time and you and I have debated mirrors many, many times.
E: Oh, I hate mirrors. I think all dance classes should be without mirrors forever. You know I feel this way.
J: Totally. Um, but you did get to fouettés en pointe in the center before you moved away?
E: Yes.
J: We worked like crazy those last several weeks before you moved away and you did! We have video of it.
E: I know, I do have videos. I got I think two of them [fouettés] … they were … I was about to say they were bad …. I should just be happy to happen.
J: You should be like I did a fouetté en pointe and I am a grown person who did that, fouettés en pointe.
E: It's so funny. I have a couple friends that I'm still friends with that I've been friends with since I was a little kid that did ballet with me. And they don't anymore. I actually have inspired both of them to go try adult classes though. One of them I know takes … she's in New York so it's not open but I know she was taking then; I don't know if the other girl did any more than a couple. But I, I got both of them back to like, trying a class, mostly just from me saying no, it's really different than you remember I promise.
J: If it’s not, maybe find a different place.
E: I posted the video of the fouettés en pointe. And I did this whole post about like, Look, these are rough. It's two, I know, I'm off the music because I couldn't keep up with the music. But I'm just super excited that they happened at all. I'm so proud of myself.
And one of my friends commented, and she said this is this is about as good as I was on flat when we were doing this really seriously. Which I think is wrong. She's totally underestimated yet. But it was a really interesting perspective for me to go, yeah, you know, I forget that I have two friends that did ballet when I was younger.
It's not like anyone else, I mean, how many people in the world you get en point and do fouettés or any ballet, right? You're surrounded by the people that you dance with. And you think like, Oh, I'm not as good as this. I'm not as good as that, but it's like 90% of the people in the room don't touch their toes in the way that you do on a normal basis. Like, just be excited about this cool thing that you're doing, you know? And yeah, it was it was a really interesting perspective because I was thinking like she's talking about new dance really seriously. And that's cool, you know, to think about what some people can or can't ever get to. And that's different for everyone. Maybe you're just excited about a single peer, but I certainly wasn't I came back then. A lot of people can't do that, you know, my husband could never stand on his job and do a single pirouette, and he's in really good shape. So it's just exciting.
““How many people in the world you get en point and do fouettés or any ballet, right? You’re surrounded by the people that you dance with, and you think like, Oh, I’m not as good as this. I’m not as good as that, but it’s like 90% of the people in the room don’t touch their toes in the way that you do on a normal basis. Like, just be excited about this cool thing that you’re doing, you know?””
Why did you dance as a kid, and why do you dance now?
J: Do you like okay, so you did ballet for a very, very long time when you were a kid? Do you? remember why you kept doing it when you were a kid? And are those reasons similar or totally different from why you keep doing it now?
E: Oh, I think they're, I think they're very different than why I keep doing it now. I think now, I mean, so to kind of outline both of them.
I think now I do it because it's fun. Maybe a weird word. But it's also it's really good, like mental health for me. I, I sort of forget how physical I used to be. And so when I am stressed or not feeling great or even like physically not feeling great, a really good workout clears my head. And again, props to my husband for knowing this. There have definitely been days when it's been, you know, maybe a week because I was injured or sick, and then I'm just upset for a few days. And he's like, you need to go to a class and leave me alone. And I'm thinking like, I don't feel like it. It's fine. And as soon as I go, I come back. I'm like, No, you're right. I feel so much better. So it's definitely like mental health now and it's fun. And I, you know, I love I love a dance studio, and I love class and I love ballet.
““When I am stressed or not feeling great or even like physically not feeling great, a really good workout clears my head. And again, props to my husband for knowing this. There have definitely been days when it’s been, you know, maybe a week because I was injured or sick, and then I’m just upset for a few days. And he’s like, you need to go to a class and leave me alone. And I’m thinking like, I don’t feel like it, it’s fine. And as soon as I go, I come back. I’m like, No, you’re right. I feel so much better. ””
But I think when I was younger, the things that I remember anyway, and there definitely was a social element to it. I had friends in dance, and that was outside of school, kind of how I saw a lot of people that I was friends with, and we chatted and there's lots of pictures of me in class when I should be doing dance or listening to a combination, and instead I'm talking to someone.
J: Who, you?!
E: Crazy. Yeah, definitely. So definitely a social element. But I think also, um, a couple of things that I remember pretty distinctly I remember being really serious about wanting to be a dancer. And it was a, it felt like a career thing. So almost the way I feel about work now, I like my job, but there are definitely plenty of days that I go in, because that's my job. And so I think part of that kind of feeling of this is the thing that I'm going to do and so I have to do it even if I don't feel great about it today, or even if I'm not excited, I need to go do this thing. Because I'm going to be a dancer and so I have to go be serious about this.
And that's different than now, obviously not I feel that now. I think the other thing that's really different and not how I feel about it now is there was a bit of like an obligation. My family's sort of full of athletes, my brother played baseball almost to professional, my mom was a swimmer almost to professional, we all kind of fall short, the professional level. But that was a very, very big thing in my house. And my parents also struggled a little bit to pay for all of my dance stuff and get classes for me. They never let me know that at the time, really. But looking back now I know that I wouldn't have been able to pay for that on what my parents made, they went out of their way to make it happen. And so anytime that I was sort of, I don't really feel like it. You know, my parents were there going, you said you were going to be there and we paid for this class, so you get dressed. Like it was definitely an obligation. And again, I don't mean to make that sound entirely just money-focused; they also are really big on you told them you were coming to rehearsal. So you need to go to rehearsal unless you're ill, like you go. And I think you know, two thirds of that feels very obligatory and I don't ever feel that now. Especially with you know, more of the drop-in class style that I do in London. If I want to go I want to go and if I really want I'm just like, today's not the day, that's okay. It's a fun thing. And if I can't do it, I can't do it. And if I can, it's because you know, I want to go to class, it's gonna be fun. So it's definitely really different.
Letting go of the dream of becoming a professional
J: When you left ballet, the first time were you did it take you a while to sort of let go of that dream of becoming a professional or when you left was it like, Good riddance, we're gonna move on to something else and just kind of leave that behind.
E: Oh, good question. Um, so I think I went through a couple of phases of wanting to be a professional dancer. Um, definitely when I was Middle School beginning of high school, it was full ABT very, you know, high level ballet was in my head. And at some point, I got it in my head that I was never going to reach those levels. Which looking back now I'm not sure is accurate. I mean, I probably wasn't going to be a principal with ABT. But definitely there's plenty of theaters across companies across the US and I certainly could have made it into those.
Yeah, um, but again, I have very ridiculous standards of things. And so I got into my head that wasn't going to happen.
And I said, Okay, are there other things I could do? And so I started toying with later in high school, like, maybe I will go be a Rockette or maybe I will be a dancer on Broadway, or maybe I will do some other forms of, of dancing. And that was kind of my pivot into….. And I think, you know, right before and when I got to New York, so I grew up in Florida, and I moved to New York for college …. and I think that move felt like, this is probably over a period of a year or two, but to me that felt really quick, which was just a kind of reckoning with not being happy with what I was doing in my life and myself and feeling like things have to be different.
And I didn't know at the time what was off, I just knew that something was off. So I was like, I'm gonna change everything then and when I moved as far away as my 18-year-old brain could imagine which was New York City from Florida, and I stopped doing ballet which was, I mean, again, a substantial portion of my life. And I went into college and before thinking I was gonna be a math major, and I switched your rhetoric major and joined the debate team, like I just, it was a full 180 because I didn't, I knew something was wrong, and I didn't know what and I just was going to change everything that I could I think dance just kind of got wrapped up in that it was just part of the wave of “everything's gonna be different, and I'm gonna figure out what's going on.” And it just kind of took me a while to actually figure out what it was. And obviously, it took me a while to get back to Hey, I think maybe a couple of these things got wrapped up when they shouldn't have as evidenced by the fact that I do ballet now. And I'm also a data analyst now. So the math thing got lost when it shouldn't have there was a lot of stuff that got changed. But I didn't I didn't know right, I didn't know what was wrong. And so it felt to me like I just have to stop everything and restart everything and go from there. And it just kind of took me a while to get back to what was good and what wasn't.
J: Right, threw the baby out with the bathwater on that one.
E: Yeah. Little bit a little bit.
J: Now the key is if you also change your hair because that would be like the icing on the cake.
E: Oh, I gave up on hair. I when I was in high school and middle school I was trying desperately to have straight hair. Which is partially because the curls don't look as good in Florida with the humidity, crazy, but it does not work. I did literal like intense chemical straighteners in my hair, they do not work it's not going to happen.
So actually, interestingly college I think partially because New York doesn't have the humidity Florida does. And also as a big part of my switch, I was like we're just gonna wear curls that and I just tried really hard to learn how to deal with curl. So yes, it was totally a part of it.
That one was good though. I'm happy with that decision. I stuck with that. I love them. So…
J: It's not a good like identity crisis if you don't also redo your hair. That's one important part of it.
E: Of course, right everybody, every movie every time the girl has to do something, she’s gonna switch her hair.
J: I was in the same boat San Diego to New York brown hair and bangs.
E: I can't even picture you like that. I'm so used to your hair looking like that.
J: I know. I know. But it worked. It worked. It was it was a good look.
E: I imagine I'm sure.
Why is it worth it to come back to ballet after a break?
J: So, okay, so you are actually in my opinion, a pretty unique dancer returning from a break in that you stuck with it and came to find joy in ballet in a new way. I think a lot of our listeners and people who I've worked with get stuck at that first class when they can't do it like they used to, and they feel like their body will never be the same again and they get in that headspace. So maybe last thing here. Do you have any thoughts for for that mindset and kind of advice you might give people to kind of get over that hurdle and why it's worth it on the other side?
E: Yeah, I think, um, I mean, I think the biggest thing for me is you're probably not gonna “be like that again,” you know, you're not going to be the same as you were. Um, and I think you have to take that as a positive, I think you have to look at that as a good thing. And think about …. there's so many different types of dancers are so many different styles and different things that people excel at or have more trouble with. And so, you know, when I was when I was younger, there were certain things that I did really well and certain things that even if I didn't know why or I wasn't as good at, and so looking back now, this is a weird personal element, but yeah, when I was younger, I was basically starving myself to dance. And so there were certain things that looked great. I was very graceful on on certain elements, and I had the really long lines. And that's not what my body looks like anymore, and it's not how it works anymore. Um, but the plus side of that is, you know, certain things are never going to look the same, right? I don't have the extension I used to have. My legs aren't as lean and they're not as flexible and that doesn't look the same. But there's certain stuff that I can do now that I actually couldn't do, because I'm feeding myself. And so I'm stronger. I have some strength, but I didn't have before.
And so I'm a different dancer. But that's not a lesser dancer, it just means that I'm not gonna do what I was in high school because my body's not when I was in high school, my mind's not what it was in high school, and I'm not doing the same type of training.
But that's cool. I mean, if you think about classes, when you were younger, there was all kinds of different dancers in class, and you always looked at one of the other girls and went, God, if I could just have her fill in the blank, if I could have her turns if I could have her extension if I could have her jobs. And the secret is that she was doing the same thing for you for something else. And so, as an adult, if you come back and you think, oh, I don't have the extension I used to have, I don't have the turns I used to have, that's okay. Maybe you're going to have something else that you didn't, you know, maybe something's gonna be different. Maybe you're going to excel in a different area. And I think thinking of it as a whole new adventure makes it a lot easier to be comfortable with it not being the same as question Right, there's other cool new things, maybe you're gonna be better at those things I, you know, who knows where the path is going to take you? I guess I feel like you have to think of it as a new path and not trying to get back to where you were, you have to just think of it as this is a new fun thing. And maybe I have some background other people don't have. But I'm still also doing a whole new adventure and figuring it out.
J: Yeah, that's really cool. It's not really a continuation in a way. It's a it's rekindling a past love. But taking that fire in a whole new direction to a whole new place. It's not really doing it for the same reasons doing it in the same body, doing it in the same mind.
E: I think hard for people to think that they're in a different body, but you really are and you have can't take a break, even a break of a year in something as technical as ballet, you're in a new place and you have to think about it as a new thing. And I just think the important thing is to remember that that's not bad, right? There's other cool things that come from differences. How boring when a performance meets all the dancers look exactly the same. How boring would a class be be if everybody had the exact same technique and did all the same things exactly the same way. That's not a that's not a fun class it's not an interesting thing to look at and so you're just going to be different than you were when you were younger and that's okay you're going to find other cool things from that so …
J: Well that's really awesome Erin I hope I hope our listeners who maybe haven't gone back into the studio yet and maybe you're kind of thinking about it we'll take those words to heart when they go back into the studio for the first time and not be so harsh and comparing themselves to their to their child self. It's really a different person and you shouldn't compare yourself to any person so why that one?
E: Right and take a little while but like three classes in advance so we've already paid for them. And then you can't quit after the first one you have to go back.
J: There you go by a month and then you have to pay for them.
E: Buy like several in a row, and then I promise by the end of them you will be happy with with what you're doing. It's just if you only do the first one you might get in your head, you know you got a book a few.
J: Well, thank you for being on the show. Erin. It was so much much fun to reconnect with you and have a chance to hear your story beginning to end. I love it.
E: Yeah, thanks for having me.
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